Heightened Invisibility question


Rules Discussion


When I attack my enemy while invisible with a whip trying to trip them if they fall prone/or don't fall do they know exactly which square I attacked from? Seems to me they might be able to (however a long shot) discern the general direction I'm in but pin pointing a square would be extremely difficult but I don't know what is RAW.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I believe that if sight is the creature/characters only precise sense then the most you would become is "hidden"

Page 464 under imprecise senses wrote:


At best, an imprecise sense can be used to make an undetected creature (or one you didn’t even know was there) merely hidden—it can’t make the creature observed.

The only way to get "observed" is if they have a Precise sense in other then sight when some is invisible.

Hidden wrote:


Hidden
While you’re hidden from a creature, that creature knows the space you’re in but can’t tell precisely where you are. You typically become hidden by using Stealth to Hide. When Seeking a creature using only imprecise senses, it remains hidden, rather than observed. A creature you’re hidden from is flat-footed to you, and it must succeed at a DC 11 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect or it fails affect you. Area effects aren’t subject to this flat check.

so they would know the space unless you moved and made a "Sneak" check...I think this is right :)

The Exchange

If you attack while invisible and the invisibility is derived from the spell Invisibility, you become visible (the effect ends) upon completion of the hostile action (p347). If you are invisible through means which do not explicitly state that hostile actions cancel it, then the enemy can do a seek action. If they succeed, you become Hidden (example p466 and detail on p467)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Laran wrote:

If you attack while invisible and the invisibility is derived from the spell Invisibility, you become visible (the effect ends) upon completion of the hostile action (p347). If you are invisible through means which do not explicitly state that hostile actions cancel it, then the enemy can do a seek action. If they succeed, you become Hidden (example p466 and detail on p467)

The heightened version you do not become visible

Quote:


Heightened (4th) The spell lasts 1 minute, but it doesn’t end if
the target uses a hostile action.

The Exchange

Thus the second part of my answer (they can take a Seek action to try and find you)


Oh ok so basically without using Seek they would have no idea where I was attacking from.

The Exchange

Actually, that is not quite true. It would be Undetected so you could still be attacked (p466). It is not Unnoticed (probably)

If a creature is undetected, you don’t know what space
it occupies, you’re flat-footed to it, and you can’t easily
target it ... If a creature is undetected, that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re unaware of its presence—you might suspect an undetected creature is in the room with you, even though you’re unable to find its
space. ...Targeting an undetected creature is difficult. If you suspect there’s a creature around, you can pick a square
and attempt an attack. This works like targeting a
hidden creature, but the flat check and attack roll are
both rolled in secret by the GM.

The Exchange

The way I have come to understand it is:

Creatures have senses to detect (usually a Precise and an Imprecise)

Precise Sense – Best case makes target Observed (usu auto)
Imprecise Sense – Best case makesa target Hidden (usu auto unless stealth/deception or background e.g. noisy interferes)
Most creature have Vision – Precise and Hearing – Imprecise

========================

Detection status of creatures falls into 4 categories which can be modified slightly

1) Observed – Can try to target
Observed – no restrictions
Observed and CONCEALED– DC5 flat check to target
2) Hidden – Know the square, flatfooted against it, and DC11 flat check to target
This includes Invisible where there was a successful Seek
3) Undetected – Don’t know the square but know they are around (you can target and hope)
Invisible is in this category IF vision is only precise sense
4) Unnoticed – You have no clue it is even there

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