Assurance + Level Bump?


Pathfinder Society

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Assurance states "You can forgo rolling a skill check to instead receive a result of 10 + your proficiency bonus (do not apply any other bonuses, penalties, or modifiers)."

Normally, that's pretty black-and-white (with the obvious caveat that reading is an interpretive activity), but since a Level Bump is an OOC equalizer that exists only for Society, would you still factor it in?

Does this "Campaign Rule" trump in-game mechanics?

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

On its face, I would say no. No other modifiers is pretty definitive.

I would require an OPF developer clarification to treat differently.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I mostly agree. The question occurred to me when I typed out my dice roll for a Trip attempt using Assurance (Athletics).

But back in PFS1 there were Campaign Rules that trumped in-game mechanics, and I'm wondering if this qualifies as one.

A level 1 character playing in subtier 3-4 is going to have a much harder time getting a successful Assurance check without a Level Bump.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I think for now we should go with what is written until a "campaign clarification" has been given.

I think the level bump should be taken into account with Assurance and treated like the character received a proficiency bonus.

2/5

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I feel the wording in the guide is trying to make it plain that its not a 'bonus' (ie it still stacks with all the usual things). They might have missed that they had to also state its not a 'modification', but I think the intent is there that the level bump is something outside the scope of what assurance would 'see' (same applies for the level bump for the adventure, a PC's assurance wouldn't remove that bump either)

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Oh, that's a good point. If there was some sort of character option that removed all the "bonuses" from an enemy, I doubt it'd work on the enemy's Level Bump.

Grand Archive 4/5 ⦵⦵

I would probably rule it with the level bump applying in most cases as that seems the point of the bump. However, in cases like Downtime checks or maybe spell scribing checks, I would exclude the bump bonus to assurance.

Sczarni 5/5 ⦵⦵

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

You can't use Assurance during Downtime anyways; it's a Fortune effect.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nefreet wrote:
You can't use Assurance during Downtime anyways; it's a Fortune effect.

I've been unable to locate a place where it says that. The only thing I've been able to find is CRB p.500-501, where fortune _spells_ and other one-off effects such as the once per day halfling luck are excluded. Assurance seems to be more of a case of a constant effect that can be used all the time which are explicitely not disallowed.

Of course, since this is only going to benefit PCs attempting a 0-level task with an expert proficiency for a success worth a whopping 5cp per day but with no chance of a critical success in return, I don't see a relevant issue.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

albadeon wrote:
Of course, since this is only going to benefit PCs attempting a 0-level task with an expert proficiency for a success worth a whopping 5cp per day but with no chance of a critical success in return, I don't see a relevant issue.

Can a 1st or 2nd level character realistically get to expert in craft, perform, or lore skill?

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

2nd level rogue. The World Guide or Player's Guide books have dedication feats that give expert skill proficiency at level 2.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

So it is a min/max scenario and not something that can achieved unless specifically driving towards that goal. It is a corner case and agree with albadeon that Assurance with downtime and level bump is not a relevant issue. I am setting aside the point that Assurance is a fortune effect and thus can't be used with downtime as I don't have time to look at that.

So back on track, I think it is intended that level bump work with Assurance and it is not game breaking.

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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Yeah, I think level bumps should work "with" Assurance. The level bump is supposed to help the PC perform at a sort of virtual higher level.

Remember that if a PC is getting a level bump, it means they're also playing against higher DCs. So letting Assurance work with level bumps seems "symmetric" to me.

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