Anyone else think strength check DCs are way too high?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


This always bothered me about 3.x E in general. Like, even breaking a wooden door is about a 25 dc, meaning it's pretty much always better to just bash it down, as you need at least 20 str to even have a chance of breaking it, meaning at low levels at least it's unlikely anyone but a half-orc barbarian or the like will have even a chance, and even then only a 5 or 10 percent chance.


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Yqatuba wrote:
This always bothered me about 3.x E in general. Like, even breaking a wooden door is about a 25 dc, meaning it's pretty much always better to just bash it down, as you need at least 20 str to even have a chance of breaking it, meaning at low levels at least it's unlikely anyone but a half-orc barbarian or the like will have even a chance, and even then only a 5 or 10 percent chance.

It does depend on the quality of the door. Simple wooden doors have a Break DC of 15, Good wooden doors 18, and Strong wooden doors are 25. The strong wooden doors are reinforced with iron.

The guidelines do suggest that you need to keep in mind the difficulty of the door when assigning that DC. a DC of 11-15 is for "a door that a strong person could break with one try and an average person might be able to break with one try."

And so on.


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add the fact that normal doors are meant to STOP intruders (if they wanted you in they would have left the door open). and that if you need you can take 20 on this. and that you should aid another on this as well (although i usually allow only up to 2 people to aid another on the account of too many hands just confuse things up)

so lets take that dc 25 door. one strong man (str 16) with no friends and equipment would most likely need to bash it down little by little until it breaks -seem common sense , is what fire-axe are used for.

if said man had 2 pals helping him - aid another +2x2 = +4 they should take it down in 2 minutes (taking 20) without a hitch. (his +3 str, +4 = +7) or they can try again and again until he roll 18+ while they need to do dc 10, might take less the n20 tries. might not.

now if he came prepared (better yet if all of them do, each) holding a crowbar for +2 to str checks to force open doors\chests (i myself like to have a kunai as it is both a piton,crowbar and weapon all in one). if it's a masterwork tool crowbar i guess that would be +4 ? (for 50 gp might be too much to invest, but the wrecking crew might invest in it, or firefighters).

the above firefighting 3-men crew with masterwork tools would have :
2 need to roll dc 10 with a +4 bonus from tools -not including their own str bonus, with even +2 should be almost trivial, just not roll 1-3 in 1d20 rolls.
and the main-man get to have a total bonus of 3(str)+4(masterwork crowbar)+4 (2xaid another) =+10.
so taking 20 would be able to open up to dc 30 secure door in 2 minutes and that dc 25 should be open in up to 5-6 rounds if they all suck at rolling somehow so half a minute? good timing i would say.

and this is average strong men team build. a character built for this from the beginning taking half orc barbarian with the trait of +2 when breaking stuff (1,2 or 3)and a bard\wizard who buff with guidance\song can take down a dc 40 door at level 1 this way


Yeah I don't see it as a problem. Breaking doors down is hard.

I weigh ~115kg (~255 lbs) and I can tell you that knocking a door down isn't going to be a cake-walk even for me.

I'm sure we all remember THIS CLASSIC SCENE (door bashing at ~1:20).
Aside from the fact it's a movie, and fake etc, remember that fezzik is played by THIS GUY (the little guy in the middle is Arnie). He weighed ~236kg (~520 lbs).

Also if you want it there's THIS


Seems about right to me.


D&D stats were somewhat derived from realistic expectations of normal human abilities, at least they were originally. I don't really now what to tell you other than I don't have a problem with the DC's in question.


Between common tools like Kunai/Crowbars, and Aid Another, the big dumb Fighter should be reliably bashing down/breaking through/forcing open most doors pretty early...

At mid levels, it should be almost guaranteed that he makes the check first try.

At higher levels, he can probably bash through stone walls like the Koolaid guy, OH-YEAH!

So, no, the DC's are not unreasonable for most Strength checks.

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