Brawn and Steel: FedoraFerret's Guide to the Fighter


Advice


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Hey gang, you may remember me from the vigilante guide. Well I'm back not only with a fighter guide, but a full on blog and a pledge to write guides for every Pathfinder Second Edition class! Take a look, feel free to follow, and if you really enjoyed it and want to get every guide a month early, I have a Patreon too.


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I think you miss on the level 13 weapon expertise feats. These are great reasons to not be a human as they allow the fighter to pick a group and also get these weapons as legendary at level 13. You can be an elf fighter and pick a melee weapon group and also get bows at legendary with elven weapon expertise. Or a dwarf and get picks, battleaxes, warhammers and dwarven weapons at legendary with dwarven weapon expertise.

The fighter will get all martial weapons legendary at level 19, but these feats allow more weapons at legendary 6 levels earlier.


It's not without merit, I'll freely acknowledge that, but that merit is very specific and limited. While they've made it so you're no longer picking a single weapon and sticking with it by default courtesy of the removal of weapon focus, the collapsing of weapon groups and the relative ease of rune transference, but at the same time, most players are proooobably going to be picking a primary weapon and sticking with it. Not to say that they won't have a backup weapon, but said backup weapon probably won't be worth dedicating one of your limited ancestry feats to. Hence, two stars. I'm of the mind only compelling reason to take it over another feat is if you're using an advanced weapon in that group.


nicholas storm wrote:

I think you miss on the level 13 weapon expertise feats. These are great reasons to not be a human as they allow the fighter to pick a group and also get these weapons as legendary at level 13. You can be an elf fighter and pick a melee weapon group and also get bows at legendary with elven weapon expertise. Or a dwarf and get picks, battleaxes, warhammers and dwarven weapons at legendary with dwarven weapon expertise.

The fighter will get all martial weapons legendary at level 19, but these feats allow more weapons at legendary 6 levels earlier.

I agree, plus you can Retrain at 19th...if the campaign ever gets there.

While the Dwarf one has limited use (though I do have a build that very much can make use of it!), ones like for Elf (or Hobgoblin) are excellent for switch-hitters, which most archers should be in PF2.
Other builds that could use it:
One-hander/Shield/Double Slice
Most gauntlet/one-hander builds
People w/ Shifting Runes who want/need to swap damage types on their main weapon.
I'd also suggest 2WF builds should choose two (or all three) different damage types, which some weapon groups lack.

There is the downside of needing the first feat which is really for getting Advanced or Uncommon Weapons re: Fighters. But on its own, the 13th level feat is worthwhile.


Looks nice! I think you forgot to cover intimidating strike (fighter feat level 2).


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One thing I think needs to be in this guide is to note which feats are flourishes, because you can only ever use 1 flourish feat a turn. For example, a Two-Weapon fighter who multiclassed into Monk cannot use both Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Flurry in the same turn, because both of those are flourish feats.


Ventnor wrote:
For example, a Two-Weapon fighter who multiclassed into Monk cannot use both Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Flurry in the same turn, because both of those are flourish feats.

Well, Two Weapon Flurry requires weapons, so it wouldn't work with FoB anyways.


Checking it out now! I am just barely into learning 2nd Edition, so for now I'll confine my comments to a proofreading items:

Proofreading items:

Strength: Change "should till probably have a few points here" to "should still probably have a few points here".
The link for Mountain's Stoutness goes to Tomb-Watcher's Glare.
"Incredibly Investiture" should be "Incredible Investiture".
"Legendary Sneak (***) Good for Sneaky Fighter, naturally for anyone else." -- I think something is missing in the text here.


Squiggit wrote:
Ventnor wrote:
For example, a Two-Weapon fighter who multiclassed into Monk cannot use both Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Flurry in the same turn, because both of those are flourish feats.
Well, Two Weapon Flurry requires weapons, so it wouldn't work with FoB anyways.

No, but you can FoB with unarmed strikes even if your hands are occupied, or use monastic weaponry to gain FoB with weapons.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Nice guide! I find it very helpful to read through comprehensive guides like this one when figuring out how to think about a class.

One comment: I'm inclined to think the guide underrates Natural Ambition and Ancient Elf.

Consider Natural Ambition. The guide is absolutely right that a lot of the first level fighter feats don't synergize well. But there are a lot of different combat situations one might end up in, and having one of these feats to help you in those situations is generally more useful (IMO) than what most ancestry feats give you.

Pretty much any melee fighter will end up in situations where they'd benefit from Power Attack, Sudden Charge, or Point-Blank Shot -- the first in cases where you're fighting something with a high resistance to your damage type, the second in cases where you need to cover a fair bit of ground to reach your target, the third against nearby enemies you need to use ranged weapons against (e.g., enemies that are flying and dive-bombing the party, or on the other side of a 20' chasm, or shooting from the balcony above, etc).

None of these are necessary, but they're nice options to have when these kinds of situations arise. And having one those options available seems (IMO) much better than any other 1st level ancestry feat the guide gives two stars to. Compare the option of being able to Power Attack against creatures with resistance to (say) Devil's Advocate, which gives you some mild bonuses when trying to interact with devils, or Courteous Comeback, which allows you to reroll a critically failed diplomacy check 1/month in a community. In most APs there will be at least a couple dozen combats where it'll be useful to have the option to Power Attack, while in most APs Devil's Advocate and Courteous Comeback will never be useful.


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We should be praising this man for the work he put in here, this is brilliant stuff must have taken quite a long time. Very well done sir.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Atalius wrote:
We should be praising this man for the work he put in here, this is brilliant stuff must have taken quite a long time. Very well done sir.

Agreed!


When can we expect a Bard guide? Is it on your radar?


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Paradozen wrote:
Looks nice! I think you forgot to cover intimidating strike (fighter feat level 2).

Thank you. I'm setting the 15th of every month as Guide Update Day, so I'll be adding it back in then.

Ventnor wrote:
One thing I think needs to be in this guide is to note which feats are flourishes, because you can only ever use 1 flourish feat a turn. For example, a Two-Weapon fighter who multiclassed into Monk cannot use both Flurry of Blows and Two Weapon Flurry in the same turn, because both of those are flourish feats.

So funny story, I actually finished this guide about a month ago, and at that point I hadn't actually looked closely enough at flourishes to realize how impactful they were, so basically every flourish is on my radar for reevaluation. Thanks for the reminder though.

Porridge: I was on the fence to be honest, and will probably be upping Natural Ambition to 3 stars after consideration. Ancient Elf is also under reevaluation but I'm less certain about that, if only because it only applies if you a) have a multiclass you want and b) have a 2nd level class feat you absolutely must have. Either way, the feedback is appreciated.

Atalius wrote:
We should be praising this man for the work he put in here, this is brilliant stuff must have taken quite a long time. Very well done sir.

Aw, stop, you're making me blush. This took me longer than future guides will if only because I now have a template with all the feats listed and hyperlinked already.

Atalius wrote:
When can we expect a Bard guide? Is it on your radar?

The current pipeline is ranger next month and champion in February. For casters in general, those are going to wait until after I've finished the Spells guide I'm working on on the side, which I'm angling to release as the March guide, and bard is probably going to be the first guide after that.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Quote:
For casters in general, those are going to wait until after I've finished the Spells guide I'm working on on the side, which I'm angling to release as the March guide, and bard is probably going to be the first guide after that.

I would seriously *love* to see a spells guide. So much has changed with respect to both the efficacy of certain spells, and the role of spells in general, that it’s hard to get a good feel for what spells to focus on.

So looking forward to it!

Dark Archive

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Porridge wrote:
Quote:
For casters in general, those are going to wait until after I've finished the Spells guide I'm working on on the side, which I'm angling to release as the March guide, and bard is probably going to be the first guide after that.

I would seriously *love* to see a spells guide. So much has changed with respect to both the efficacy of certain spells, and the role of spells in general, that it’s hard to get a good feel for what spells to focus on.

So looking forward to it!

Anecdotally, I've been drafting a spell guide for a while now, and it presents a bigger challenge than one might think.

In PF1 spells were fairly discrete and could be looked at in a more isolated way than in PF2. I honestly don't think enough data / rules clarification is out there yet to make a meaningful list.

It's certainly why I've avoid it thus far.

For example, we don't yet really know if Flaming Sphere is one the best damage dealing spells ever printed, or merely "pretty okay".


Old_Man_Robot wrote:

In PF1 spells were fairly discrete and could be looked at in a more isolated way than in PF2. I honestly don't think enough data / rules clarification is out there yet to make a meaningful list.

It's certainly why I've avoid it thus far.

For example, we don't yet really know if Flaming Sphere is one the best damage dealing spells ever printed, or merely "pretty okay".

I'm running into a similar issue, which is why it's a side project for me right now. That being said, it's something that I'm going to run into with casters in general (in fact I did when I wrote a wizard guide for Legendary, and regretted about a quarter of my spell ratings later as the system became more clear), and rather than go through all the same spells over and over again, I think it'll be easier to simply compile all of the spells together and make updates as time goes on and things become more clear.


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Count me as someone who appreciates the work you put into it FedoraFerret. I really enjoyed your insights on the Fighter feats in particular.


Siro wrote:
Count me as someone who appreciates the work you put into it FedoraFerret. I really enjoyed your insights on the Fighter feats in particular.

You can run this up a flagpole and I'll salute it.

Shadow Lodge

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Added to the 2nd Edition Guide to the Guides!


FedoraFerret,
In case you wanted a (non-standard?) idea with what to do with yourself. I am of the opinion that PF2 lends easily making "Gish" classes straight out of the Core and beyond.

So: What about a Gish Guide?

Premise: Which Classes lend themselves to better Bases, which to better MCDs? Compare / contrast the different Casting MCDs. What Class Feats support different kinds of Gish strategies? How does Tradition impact how a Gish conducts themselves? Which Ancestries are best suited?...

Plus, I think the idea of Class-agnostic guides would pair well with the "traditional" type of Class guide.

Cheers.


Class agnostic guides are part of the plan! After all, there's a finite number of classes in the game and eventually I will run out. Aside from the spells guide and an animal companion guide, though, I want to have all the class guides done first.

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