# Bulk of stone donkey bank

### Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

I know it's silly. But the party I'm running a game for has "joked" about it too much so I know its going to happen. How much coinage could a donkey hold "living", and then if it was turned into stone, what would the total bulk be?

I'm thinking heavy enough that it would require a wagon and at least 2 pack animals to pull??

Thanks for indulging this silliness.

K-ray

Edit. Umm the coins would be inside the donkey

As in feeding the donkey coins or hollowing the donkey out and filling it? Not sure I'm willing to research the volume of donkey orifices, but with the hollow donkey...

Assuming a donkey has about 70 cubic feet (larger donkeys appear to be a bit smaller than a refrigerator) and coins are the size of a U.S. Dollar Coin (.067 cubic inches) the donkey can hold 1750000 coins, or 1750 bulk of coins. I have no idea how to calculate the wasted space due to coins not perfectly filling a donkey shaped container, but I suspect it would be significant.

The average packing density of loose coins is roughly 54%.

Draco18s wrote:
The average packing density of loose coins is roughly 54%.

Citation please (just because I want to know who came up with it...)

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Draco18s wrote:
The average packing density of loose coins is roughly 54%.
Citation please (just because I want to know who came up with it...)

The long answer is "its complicated" but dumping a bunch of coins into a container and filling it with water (and measuring the amount of water) gives a rough approximation.

I pulled the number from this reddit thread.

Ok, so no-one has an actual mathematical solution. Good, because that's a hellaciously hard problem...

So 1750 in coinage, 4-6 for the donkey, but then its turned to stone. That part throws me off.

Stone has a density of around 2.5 to 3, depending on which type of stone/rock. So weighs about 2.5 to 3 times as much as a living donkey.

Medium creatures are 6 bulk, petrified doubles bulk, so 12. Assuming a larger donkey is medium (which is what I based the 1750 estimate on).

And it occurs to me that a stone donkey normally probably isn't much harder to carry than a stone donkey hollowed out and filled with coins (even if the coins are denser than the stone they apparently only occupy about half the space, with the other half being empty) so leaning into bulk being an abstraction of more than weight and not being additive you might call it a mere 12 bulk, which fits with needing two pack animals to carry.

Otherwise, 1750/2 for packing density, plus another 6 for a hollow donkey (12 doesn't fit because it is lighter than a donkey full of stone) gets you 882ish bulk, which would take an absurd effort to move.

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882 does seem like a lot, but I'm not sure what that would be comparable to. Like is a stone house less then that? Is it in the range of a castle? Keeping in mind bulk is more then just weight but how easy it is to handle.

A solid stone donkey is 12 bulk. I don't think hollowing it out then filling it with coins makes it 80 times harder to carry. It would probably make it lighter and easier to move if anything, so maybe 9 bulk instead of the full 12, since it will only be half full (see packing density).

As for how much bulk 882 is, it takes the combined carrying capacity of 89 war horses to carry that unencumbered. I think a sizable building would fit. It's large enough for a GM to say it cannot be carried unless broken apart.

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The coins, if on or in the donkey at the time of petrification, would be transformed into stone too. This makes them lighter as well as melds them into the new statue so they don't shift around.
So you could lighten the load of a lot of treasure this way.
Then use Shrink Item.
Then put that in a Bag of Holding.
You could have a whole caravan of donkey statues in there.

It's similar to the Goblin backpack. Load up a body w/ lots of gear & loot, then carry the body...which for whatever reason doesn't factor in the encumbrance on the body. A fighter & wizard weigh the same, if in the same size category. Whether the Goblin needs to be living is another question. Dead weight's actually easier to carry. :)

Of course, GM oversight is encouraged so much of this finagling needs prior approval, but there's no actual Bulk determination system, or even much in the way of guidelines other than to look at similar items.
So I expect to see these shenanigans where the rules are so wiggly. It's probably best to address this as Bulk being a secondary system and there being no primary reference point. (To default to reason or logic in a fantasy game has issues.)