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These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon. Love the game, but this particular community is not an enjoyable one to participate in.
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That might just be confirmation bias.
Off topic discussions is pretty jovial.
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These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon. Love the game, but this particular community is not an enjoyable one to participate in.
*HUG*
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These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon. Love the game, but this particular community is not an enjoyable one to participate in.
Well if your posts weren't anything but vacuum strawmen made to make your point seem better that it actually was while trying to underplay any counterpoints making it obvious you are not actually looking for a debate but just to push your own biased agenda.
But you do you
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I also like poking the hornet's nest from time to time.
These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon.
The first post might explain why you get that feeling.
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People disagree here all the time. I've been told I'm wrong. I've been very wrong. I've never felt unwelcome.
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To be fair, it's hard to fit into a community whose demographic you don't really belong with. A community has an expectation. Failure to meet that expectation makes you strange, weird; outcast, even. And people involved in said community who dislike what you try to bring to them will be up in arms and bully or oust you until you either conform to their ideals or give up and move on.
On top of that, it's not much of a conversation when one side does not and will not listen to the other, or at the very least consider it and explain why, in their opinion, something does or does not work, or is or isn't. This is true of both the outsider who is foreign to the community, and the community who is foreign to the outsider.
I know this because I deal with this insanity in absolutely every aspect of my life, struggling against this grain of society, never grasping the situation properly. Here is no different than interactions with others in the real world; I have to meet or aspire to their expectations or be discarded and disregarded.
Join the club, "friend". It's a lonely one, because even if you're in this same boat as us, you're still by yourself on this endeavor. I mean, I don't really fit in here either since some time before the release of this edition. I never will, to be frank.
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I mean, I don't really fit in here either since some time before the release of this edition. I never will, to be frank.
Are you sure? I mean I would have called you one of the regulars. A pillar of the community, if that didn't sound so dramatic to say.
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I mean, I don't really fit in here either since some time before the release of this edition. I never will, to be frank.Are you sure? I mean I would have called you one of the regulars. A pillar of the community, if that didn't sound so dramatic to say.
LOL I have to say, I understand Darksol. I feel the same way. I think about the time they started developing PF2 in the background, I noticed a distinct change in PF1 rulings that went counter to my liking more and more as we got closer to the new edition.
With PF2, things have diverged even further and makes it clear I'm not who the game was made for. I'm still trying to figure out if it's worth the effort to stick it out and try to find a way to make it work. :P
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I'm honestly confused by the "has become" part because the forum has always been like this at least for five years I've been here :p
Like as far as I can tell, it has always had arguments where people get overly defensive on both sides and it devolves to personal attacks about integrity of other posters. It mostly depends on which section you are posting in, if you post in rules discussion, you see much more arguments than if you post in lore or other sections.
Saying otherwise just makes me feel like people are imagining this "golden age where everyone got along with each other" out of nostalgia that I don't really share due to not being here that long. At most I can understand it if you were talking about 2007 or 2012 years since back during those years 5e didn't exist yet and everyone was united in "4e sucks, Pathfinder is true successor to D&D!" and was still in honeymoon phase overall.
That and game was even more niche so less posters to get in arguments with :p 5e's popularity has increased popularity of rpgs overall and more people means more arguments.
Then again, I do admit that I might have problem understanding the alienation mindset because I feel like outsider in every single community I have ever posted in :P Hard to understand why people feel alienated when I haven't ever felt belonging to any internet forum in first place.
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I also like poking the hornet's nest from time to time.These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon.The first post might explain why you get that feeling.
Yeah, I dunno how you can say you like stirring up trouble and then complain you feel unwelcome.
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Maybe it's just me, but this feels like a bad thread to post when all the Paizo employees are enjoying their holiday, and thus aren't on the forums. I don't want them to feel like they can't ever take their eyes off of us.
Maybe it's just me, but this feels like a bad thread to post when all the Paizo employees are enjoying their holiday, and thus aren't on the forums. I don't want them to feel like they can't ever take their eyes off of us.
I thought the same. The timing is suspicious.
I am glad that I am not the only one
Maybe it's just me, but this feels like a bad thread to post when all the Paizo employees are enjoying their holiday, and thus aren't on the forums. I don't want them to feel like they can't ever take their eyes off of us.I thought the same. The timing is suspicious.
I am glad that I am not the only one
I wasn't really thinking suspicious, just inappropriate.
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People forming "sides" and trying to enforce some sort of hive-mind in a niche community like this is a pretty normal occurrence.
It's normal in an online community lifecycle: When an idea is ingrained in the most frequent participants, treated as gospel and then any dissident is marginalized, so they leave only only 1 faction remains in the end.
This forum isn't in the last stage yet, there's still a lot of contrary opinions out there, and I figure it won't get a lot worse than it currently it is. But "go play a different game" or "Op is just a troll trying to disrupt our perfect harmony" have been staple weapons in here since the Playtest started.
These are the official forums after all, the one place where you can actually have your opinion read by the game designers! Gotta voice your ideas no matter how "different" they are because there's a good chance it will actually matter.
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I like to think there’s a bunch of disagreements because the forums are filled with a lot of brilliant tt gamers who’ve seen and played a lot of different things.
Sometimes people disagree, sometimes we even get snarky with each other, but I like to hope that we have respect for each other behind that. I know that even those I’ve disagreed with, even relatively recently, are paragons of passionate gamers.
Some days you’re with the cult of personality and some days you’re not, but the days you’re not are just as valuable as the days you are, at least that’s my take.
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These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon.
I'd love to know where's that bandwagon. In my opinion, it's just because people are quite driven when they argue.
Or is it just that the average roleplayer maximizes intelligence and dumps charisma... :D
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This forum isn't in the last stage yet, there's still a lot of contrary opinions out there, and I figure it won't get a lot worse than it currently it is. But "go play a different game" or "Op is just a troll trying to disrupt our perfect harmony" have been staple weapons in here since the Playtest started.
Still not getting idea where people think it started recently, that "Go play a different game" was a thing in 2015 at least :p
Heck, I'm pretty sure I've seen lot of posters who act like its recent thing use exact same arguments on people they disagreed with in previous years.
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This forum isn't in the last stage yet, there's still a lot of contrary opinions out there, and I figure it won't get a lot worse than it currently it is. But "go play a different game" or "Op is just a troll trying to disrupt our perfect harmony" have been staple weapons in here since the Playtest started.Still not getting idea where people think it started recently, that "Go play a different game" was a thing in 2015 at least :p
Heck, I'm pretty sure I've seen lot of posters who act like its recent thing use exact same arguments on people they disagreed with in previous years.
It’s been this way since 09/10. I got into a 5 page back and forth with someone over PF1 stealth rules. If anything I think the forums are more open and tame than they were back in the “Wild West” of internet moderation lol
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It’s been this way since 09/10. I got into a 5 page back and forth with someone over PF1 stealth rules. If anything I think the forums are more open and tame than they were back in the “Wild West” of internet moderation lolThis forum isn't in the last stage yet, there's still a lot of contrary opinions out there, and I figure it won't get a lot worse than it currently it is. But "go play a different game" or "Op is just a troll trying to disrupt our perfect harmony" have been staple weapons in here since the Playtest started.Still not getting idea where people think it started recently, that "Go play a different game" was a thing in 2015 at least :p
Heck, I'm pretty sure I've seen lot of posters who act like its recent thing use exact same arguments on people they disagreed with in previous years.
I meant that "everyone played the same game". It was just Pathfinder and everyone liked it, even if they hated some random rule or book. People were rude and stuff of course! Could be told to "go play 5e". It's not that people were better, but "sides" were hard to define.
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I meant that "everyone played the same game". It was just Pathfinder and everyone liked it, even if they hated some random rule or book. People were rude and stuff of course! Could be told to "go play 5e". It's not that people were better, but "sides" were hard to define.It’s been this way since 09/10. I got into a 5 page back and forth with someone over PF1 stealth rules. If anything I think the forums are more open and tame than they were back in the “Wild West” of internet moderation lolThis forum isn't in the last stage yet, there's still a lot of contrary opinions out there, and I figure it won't get a lot worse than it currently it is. But "go play a different game" or "Op is just a troll trying to disrupt our perfect harmony" have been staple weapons in here since the Playtest started.Still not getting idea where people think it started recently, that "Go play a different game" was a thing in 2015 at least :p
Heck, I'm pretty sure I've seen lot of posters who act like its recent thing use exact same arguments on people they disagreed with in previous years.
Not really. You had people playing DND 2e, 3.5, 4th, 5th, and everyone and their various interpretations and houserules for P1.
And the arguments were wide ranging back then too.
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A person opens a thread because feel that anyone who disagrees with the majority is attacked.
Two people start making veiled accusations.
Congratulations! you guys proved his point.
observation1. On holidays, people have more time to write posts.
observation2. The world is big and not everyone knows that in the US is a holiday.
Welcome to the forums, new user! We're not that bad, when you get to know us. ^_^
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i know the other day , i said i felt like i prefered playing pf1e and got shouted at like i was trying to say 2e was bad. it was strange.
i don't think you shouted at me, it were others.
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Being disagreed with, even being disliked, is not the same as being unwelcome.
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Look, maybe "kicking the hornet's nest" was just a poor choice of words on the DM ofs part. But it literally means starting trouble. Someone who explicitly comes here with the intention of starting trouble is not going to be well received.
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I mean, I don't really fit in here either since some time before the release of this edition. I never will, to be frank.Are you sure? I mean I would have called you one of the regulars. A pillar of the community, if that didn't sound so dramatic to say.
I was, at one point. I did make a guide or two (the first one was pretty blunderful, but I learned from that mistake and made two other ones which blows that one out of the water in terms of effectiveness and applicability). Now? Not so much. I took a back seat because I know my concepts and ideals of what I expect of this game are individualistic. They would work for me, but not for other gamers, and in the pages of text of PF2, it shows in paragraphs upon paragraphs. And I feel that, because I don't "match" those ideals, I'm not considered one of the fold. The OP might feel that same way, and while I might disagree with his mannerisms to reach that conclusion, I do agree that it is very easily possible to feel unwelcome if your ideals aren't conformed to the community's.
Being disagreed with, even being disliked, is not the same as being unwelcome.
The first one makes sense. The second one is far more contentious, when we consider that things we dislike are generally things people try to avoid or keep out of things they want to enjoy. It might be a reason a character stands against something. In fact, it's largely the way houserules and such arise.
Even if it's not an active statement of "You're not welcome here," the behaviors and syntaxes of users can still emulate that attitude, whether they mean to or not. All sides are guilty of this.
There are always going to be contentious topics ("Paladins Falling", "Caster/Martial Disparity", etc.). If you find that you're not enjoying yourself when you talk about those topic, maybe seek out different topics that align with your interests.
Or just put a little different spin on whatever is bugging you. "I don't like [X]" is going to read a lot differently in the homebrew forums than the general discussion forums.
Luckily one can ignore anything one finds unproductive, unhelpful or negative in any way. In the case of a moderated internet forum, that means you only have a problem if the moderator decides you're unwelcome.
Can easily kill a thread you don't like by starting a fire or derailing it into conspiracy theories. Some people evn just imemdiately flag it to be moved or deleted. People def have some agency in getting rid of stuff they don't like from others.
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making it obvious you are not actually looking for a debate but just to push your own biased agenda.One person makes a complain, and he's instantly accused of pushing an hidden agenda - as if he w&s part of a big illuminati conspiracy. Because obviously Pathfinder is so important, several secret society are fighting to determine its destiny.
This is why this community is toxic - and why this forum is awesome. Discussing with people believing in those kind of conspiracy is awesome.
Read his past posts.
Then you will understand
These forums have become toxic to anyone not on the majority bandwagon. Love the game, but this particular community is not an enjoyable one to participate in.
On the contrary, this is fertile soil, not toxic. Look how your tiny one-post seed sprouted in a large floating and now sentient island of sargassum.