Fighter Wrestler


Advice


Fighter have a big flexibility because he gain a ton of feats, armor and weapon training and can use any matrial weapon and shield

But what abou not heavy armored build, who use only their fists to punch enemies?
I create Unarmed fighter build. I know that this archetype is some weird, but i very like his concept
Str 20
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 8

1lvl Dirty fighting, weapon focus Unarmed strike, Ascetic style

2lvl Inproved Grapple

3lvl Weapon Proficiency Armor spikes

4lvl Weapon spec Unarmed strike

5lvl Ascetic form

6lvl Combat Rhytm

7lvl Ascetic Strike

8lvl Greater Grapple

9lvl Rapid Grapple

10lvl Deadlly Grappler

11lvl power attack

12lvl TWF

This build focused on graplle and unarmed strikes. What are you think about that?


Snapping turtle style is good for grapple, but I take ascetic Style, and can use ascetic and snapping turtle


Human Fighter (Lore Warden)

STR: 18
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT:14
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

1. Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus
2. Combat Expertise, Improved Grapple
3. Two Weapon Fighting
4. Weapon Specialization, unarmed
5. Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon(Unarmed)
6. Greater Grapple
7. Power Attack
8. Kraken Style
9. Rapid Grappler
10. Kraken Wrack
11. Chokehold
12. Improved TWF
13. Body Shield

Class Abilities:

3. Maneuver Mastery +2 (increases by +2 every four levels)
5. Weapon Training (Unarmed)
7. Know they enemy (knowledge check for +2 to attack & damage rolls)
9. Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
13. Advanced Weapon Training: Combat Maneuver Defense


Pro100Andr wrote:
This build focused on graplle and unarmed strikes. What are you think about that?

Might be a bit too specialized in grapple, and it seems like it will have trouble contributing outside of combat. I'd also be a bit concerned about my saving throws, Will saves especially.

Any particular reason why your builds are all level 12? Not a particularly normal level to start at.


Wonderstell wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
This build focused on graplle and unarmed strikes. What are you think about that?

Might be a bit too specialized in grapple, and it seems like it will have trouble contributing outside of combat. I'd also be a bit concerned about my saving throws, Will saves especially.

Any particular reason why your builds are all level 12? Not a particularly normal level to start at.

In most cases we start at 9-11 levels pr I need that for duel. Its Fighter, What are you mean by troubles outside of combat?


Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Human Fighter (Lore Warden)

STR: 18
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT:14
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

1. Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus
2. Combat Expertise, Improved Grapple
3. Two Weapon Fighting
4. Weapon Specialization, unarmed
5. Advanced Weapon Training: Focused Weapon(Unarmed)
6. Greater Grapple
7. Power Attack
8. Kraken Style
9. Rapid Grappler
10. Kraken Wrack
11. Chokehold
12. Improved TWF
13. Body Shield

Class Abilities:

3. Maneuver Mastery +2 (increases by +2 every four levels)
5. Weapon Training (Unarmed)
7. Know they enemy (knowledge check for +2 to attack & damage rolls)
9. Advanced Weapon Training: Armed Bravery
13. Advanced Weapon Training: Combat Maneuver Defense

Your build focused on grapple, but not unarmed damage for grapple. Also kraken is not neede, its gives not so much damage


Pro100Andr wrote:
In most cases we start at 9-11 levels pr I need that for duel. Its Fighter, What are you mean by troubles outside of combat?

Your fighter build has exactly two ways to interact with the world. Punch or Grapple. For the large majority of problems that can't be solved by those two options, your build won't be of much use. I guess it's fine if the build isn't meant to be roleplayed, but that wasn't the impression I got.

Also, the Unarmed Fighter archetype loses it's lv 8 and 12 bonus feats. So your proposed build doesn't work.

Pro100Andr wrote:
Your build focused on grapple, but not unarmed damage for grapple. Also kraken is not neede, its gives not so much damage

Your build uses Ascetic Style to raise your unarmed damage dice from 1d3 to 1d10. This costs you three feats for an average increase of 3.5 damage.

Volkard Abendroth's build uses the Focused Weapon Advanced Weapon Training class feature to raise their unarmed damage dice from 1d3 to 1d10. Their build spends one feat for the same effect, and has the option to take other style feats.

Dark Archive

The monk archetype for grappling is much simpler and more effective. I don't see why not just using that


I use feats mostly for combat aspects. For sochial i use skill ranks and roleplayong


Name Violation wrote:
The monk archetype for grappling is much simpler and more effective. I don't see why not just using that

Tetori is banal grapple archetype. Also monk need more statistic : Wis, Dex, Str and Con


Wonderstell wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
In most cases we start at 9-11 levels pr I need that for duel. Its Fighter, What are you mean by troubles outside of combat?

Your fighter build has exactly two ways to interact with the world. Punch or Grapple. For the large majority of problems that can't be solved by those two options, your build won't be of much use. I guess it's fine if the build isn't meant to be roleplayed, but that wasn't the impression I got.

Also, the Unarmed Fighter archetype loses it's lv 8 and 12 bonus feats. So your proposed build doesn't work.

Pro100Andr wrote:
Your build focused on grapple, but not unarmed damage for grapple. Also kraken is not neede, its gives not so much damage

Your build uses Ascetic Style to raise your unarmed damage dice from 1d3 to 1d10. This costs you three feats for an average increase of 3.5 damage.

Volkard Abendroth's build uses the Focused Weapon Advanced Weapon Training class feature to raise their unarmed damage dice from 1d3 to 1d10. Their build spends one feat for the same effect, and has the option to take other style feats.

This Advanced weapon training looks good.I not understiid why he take Kraken style feats. Damage bonus is not so high


I rewatched Volkard's build, and now i see how good it is. Thanks


But there are some mistakes. For Kraken you need 13 Wis and Improved TWF because your dexterity in not 17.if you create this build in 20 points, Cha need be 7. And how i know chokehold is not so usefull


i think take snapping turrtle and snapping turrtle clutch instead of kraken style


Pinning Rend and Pinning knockout are stacks?


Pro100Andr wrote:
But there are some mistakes. For Kraken you need 13 Wis and Improved TWF because your dexterity in not 17.if you create this build in 20 points, Cha need be 7. And how i know chokehold is not so usefull

Kraken Style gives +5 damage per successful grapple check and gives a =2 to maintaining a grapple.

At this level I assume some gear has been taken to increase stats, e.g. the character can take an implanted ioun stone to bump DEX and a headband to increase both WILL saves and damage from Kraken Wrack.

Chokehold serves 1 purpose. Casters cannot use spells with verbal components or activate spell trigger items (like wands).


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
But there are some mistakes. For Kraken you need 13 Wis and Improved TWF because your dexterity in not 17.if you create this build in 20 points, Cha need be 7. And how i know chokehold is not so usefull

Kraken Style gives +5 damage per successful grapple check and gives a =2 to maintaining a grapple.

At this level I assume some gear has been taken to increase stats, e.g. the character can take an implanted ioun stone to bump DEX and a headband to increase both WILL saves and damage from Kraken Wrack.

Chokehold serves 1 purpose. Casters cannot use spells with verbal components or activate spell trigger items (like wands).

I think you cant take feats, access to which provides magical items which add you bonus to statistic


Hmm,

Half Orc, Sacred Tatoos, Shaman's Apprentice (Endurance)
1Brawler1: Martial Cunning, Martial Flexibility, Improved Grapple, BAB+1
2B1Witch1: White Hair, King Crab Familiar

The King Crab Familiar gives you a +2 on Grapple Checks. Since this your only Natural Attack, you will get to add +1.5X your Strength Mod to Damage instead of just your ST Mod.

White Hair Gives you a Free Grapple Attack with every hit.

You should wear Armor with Armor Spikes because Armor Spikes give you extra Piercing Damage with every successful Grapple Attack.

3B1W1Fighter1: Power Attack, Cleave, BAB+2

Funny thing: There isn't any actual limit as to how many opponents you can Grapple at a time. There isn't any reason why you can't take Great Cleave with your White Hair and conceivably have every opponent around you Grappled at once. It might be a trick to Maintain those grapples next round.

4B1W1F2: Bravery+1, Weapon Focus Hair, BAB+3
5B1W1F2Cavalier1: Constable, Tactician, Broken Wing Gambit, Challenge, Combat Reflexes, BAB+4

Broken Wing Gambit offers any opponent you hit a +2 Attack and Damage, but if they Attack you, such as making a Grapple Check to escape your Grapple, they provoke an Attack from you and all your Allies that have the Feat.

Funny thing. You can't make Attacks of Opportunity when you are Grappled, but when you Grapple opponents with the Free Action Grapple granted by White Hair, only your opponents are Grappled, not you!

So, you can have 2 opponents Grappled simultaneously, and if they attack you, including making a Grapple Check to escape, then you get an Attack of Opportunity on them, and you get to make another Grapple check to deepen the Grapple, to Pin them for instance.

6B1W1F2C2: Expert Captor, BAB+5

Now you don't even have to Pin them, you can just Tie them Up!

7B1W1F3C2: Greater Grapple, Armor Training +1, BAB+6

This lets you Grapple as a Move Action. You can Cleave as a Standard Action, Grappling 2 Opponents, then you can Grapple one of them as a Move Action, tying them up. The 2nd one gets Tied Up when he makes a Grapple Check to escape and provokes an Attack of Opportunity though Broken Wing Gambit.

You can also Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action against a single opponent then Tie them Up as a Move Action.

8B1W1F4C2: Great Cleave, BAB+7
9B1W1F4C2Living Monolith1: Iron Will, Ka Stone: Enlarge 1/day, Toughness
10B1W1F4L1Alchemist1: Brew Potions, Throw Anything, Mutagens, Extracts, Bombs 1d6
11B1W1F4A2: Tentacle, Tumor Familiar

Crabs are Aquatic, but Tumor Familiars aren't: that's nice, plus Fast Healing 5. That Tentacle gives you a +4 on all Grapple checks.

So this character starts Grappling early and can Grapple multiple opponents, and with Expert Captor, her Grapple Attack is absolutely devastating.

Wonderstell wrote:
Your fighter build has exactly two ways to interact with the world. Punch or Grapple.

This one sure is a 1-trick Pony, maybe 2, depending on how you count. I usually wouldn't combine Greater Grapple with White Hair early on. I'd combine it with something else like being a Grenadier Alchemist and shoot exploding arrows and then develop Grappling.


Scott Wilhelm, your build looks good, but i there are too much mutliclassing. 5 classes is insane. I think alchemist is not needed here. Also BBA that you wrote not correct. 11B1W1F4A2C2 have +18BBA


Pro100Andr wrote:
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
I think you cant take feats, access to which provides magical items which add you bonus to statistic

You can. If a temporary bonus is active for over 24 hours, it becomes a "permanent bonus". This allows you to qualify for feats.


Wonderstell wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Volkard Abendroth wrote:
I think you cant take feats, access to which provides magical items which add you bonus to statistic

You can. If a temporary bonus is active for over 24 hours, it becomes a "permanent bonus". This allows you to qualify for feats.

ok, thanks. In most cases i in builds not to mention statistic enchantments


Pro100Andr wrote:
Scott Wilhelm, your build looks good, but i there are too much mutliclassing. 5 classes is insane.

It's a lot of multiclassing. It's just a little thought experiment about how to use Grappling on multiple opponents. Honestly, I'm not excited to play that character build. I love the combination of Expert Captor and Greater Grapple, but I would develop a non-Grappling feature in the character first. Like a nice Orc Hornbow and shoot exploding arrows. Then grab Greater Grapple and Expert Captor when your BAB approaches +6. And only after that develop White Haired Witch and Great Cleave. By then I'd've already taken Coordinated Maneuvers for the Cavalier Teamwork Feat, so I'd have to take levels in Inquisitor or something to get Broken Wing Gambit, or maybe I'd take Snake Style Feats and Feral Combat Training.

Pro100Andr wrote:
I think alchemist is not needed here.

The Alchemal Tentacle gives you a +4 on all Grapple Checks, and it only takes 2 levels in Alchemist to get it. The King Crab Tumor Familiar gives you a +2. Over the course of 4 levels in Alchemist, Your Grapple Mod goes up by a Full-time +9: +4 Tentacle, +2 Familiar, and +3 BAB. That's very fast. In the build I proposed the GMB went up +7 in just 2 levels. Also, there is the Strength Mutagen which will let you increase it by another +2: +4 Strength. In addition to that, I know a trick that will let you use True Strike twice in a Round, allowing you to get another +20 on both the Standard Action to Initiate a Grapple and the Move Action to Tie Up your opponent. I have had a similar Grappling character with a full-time GMB of +30, and that trick would make it +50. A Balor Demon's CMD is only 54.

You might not feel comfortable with it, and that's cool, but to say the levels in Alchemist are unnecessary is maybe not quite accurate.

Also, good catch on the typo.

And even if you don't like the build, I hope you found some of my ideas interesting and helpful in some way.


I think Brawler does exactly what you're trying to do here but more efficiently.


Another thought I had would be to just develop as a regular Fighter with Morning Star, Heavy Shield, and Armor Spikes. You 2 Weapon Fight with Morning Star and Armor Spikes.

When your BAB gets to +7, take Hamatula Strike. With Hamatula Strike, every hit with a Piercing Weapon gives you a Free Grapple Attack, and those Armor Spikes will also do extra piercing damage with every successful Grapple. Rather than use a Fighter Feat to take Improved Unarmed Strike, I'd have you dip a level in Monk or Brawler, but if you want to just use one of your Feats to do that, that'll work. So, sticking with Fighter, you take Improved Unarmed Strike at Level 4, Improved Grapple at Level 5, Greater Grapple at level 6, then Hamatula Strike at level 7. Maybe after that, you could switch from a Heavy Shield to a Light, Spiked Shield, take Shield Slam, Greater Bull Rush, and Paired Opportunist. There is an Advanced Fighter Training that lets you use Teamwork Feats like Inquisitors can. So then your Full Attack would be Morning Star with a Grapple and Armor Spikes, Shield Bash with Grapple, Armor Spikes, and a Bull Rush that gives all your allies Attacks of Opportunity, which could then be another Shield Bash, GrappleSpikes, then another bull rush, triggering more Attacks of Opportunity...

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