Dune Drifter Cavalier


Advice


Cavalier is strange class. For all profit of his ability you need teammates,Mount and good weapon. And concept of the class banal:a brave hero helping all needy people.I like gunslinger, class that can shoot with many guns and kill things in most cases. And there is a archetype, that combines their abilities - Dune Drifter
This is my build
Str 8
Dex 20
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

Order of Eastern Star

1lvl extra Grit, Toughness

3lvl point black shot

5lvl Rapid shot

6lvl weapon focus revolver

7lvl Snap shot

9lvl Quick Draw

11lvl Dodge

12lvl Improved initiative

Dune Drifter havent ability to add Dex to damage, so I think challenge damage bonus can help with it

What mount I need to choose, and what are you think at all?


I would get Chain Challenge as soon as possible...

For mount, I think spending feats on a flying mount might be the way to go.

Not in love with Order of the Eastern Star... Maybe Order of the Land for the ranged bonus?


Secret Wizard wrote:

I would get Chain Challenge as soon as possible...

For mount, I think spending feats on a flying mount might be the way to go.

Not in love with Order of the Eastern Star... Maybe Order of the Land for the ranged bonus?

Order of land can be good for traveling character. Skills and initiative bonuses from favorite terrarian is not bad, but i think DR is little better. Adaptive strike is a strange adility


Im new in mount abd pets, so dont know what feats are woll good


Dump your strength all the way to 7 to slide another two build points into Wis or Int. Your camel is doing the lifting anyway.


In most games getting a revolver isn't guaranteed, it's an advanced firearm. Early firearms are available by default but not advanced. If you're stuck with early firearms then you're going to want rapid reload at some point.

With Str 8 you're not planning to fight in melee. That means you need to be able to fire into melee; precise shot is all but essential ASAP. Get it & its prereq point blank shot at level 1 if you're playing a human.

Snap shot is cool but not as useful as people seem to think. Likewise quick draw. Deadly aim might be nice to have.


ok, thanks. how you think, i need spend some feats for mount?


i can take revolver as a 1st level gun(GM allowed)


Your mount has feats of its own, that's probably enough? You've enough to spend your feats on. Mounted combat and indomitable mount would be handy but I expect you won't have a couple of feats free like that. Besides the ones I named or that are in your plan already, Secret Wizard isn't wrong about your wanting chain challenge.


avr wrote:
Your mount has feats of its own, that's probably enough? You've enough to spend your feats on. Mounted combat and indomitable mount would be handy but I expect you won't have a couple of feats free like that. Besides the ones I named or that are in your plan already, Secret Wizard isn't wrong about your wanting chain challenge.

You mean challende feats? I never used it


1) I assume those stats aren't 30pt-buy at 1st level, and you're including gear and leveling.

2) Chain Challenge is a fantastic feat, but the firearms enthusiast cavalier will be irritated by the frequency at which he discovers he lacks additional opponents within 30', and further irritated by the frequency at which said opponents who are within 30' are also adjacent to him and thereby harshing his gunplay groove with their AoOs.

3) As alluded in 2), you are worthless in melee prior to 7th-level, and until then are unable to deploy your firearms effectively when enemies have you within their AoO zones.

4) Multiclassing a few fighter levels to front-load some feats wouldn't hurt.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

(assume OP's stats)

traits: Dangerously Curious, (any trait granting INIT+2)

01 Fighter1 [Dragoon|Mounted Combat/Skill Focus:Ride], Indomitable Mount, Point-Blank Shot
02 DuneD1 [Extra Grit (retrained for free from AmatGun at 7th), Gunsmithing]
03 DuneD2 Rapid Shot
04 DuneD3 [Rapid Reload]
05 DuneD4 [Expert Trainer], Weapon Finesse
06 Fighter2 [combat feat: Horse Master]
07 Gunslinger1, Quick Draw or Chain Challenge

Gear: opalescent white pyramid ioun stone (cracked: martial proficiency: elven curve blade)

-- You now enjoy....

* Four feats at 1st level

* Pick up Acrobatics and Perception as class skills (at 7th)

* a full-level animal companion regardless of future class levels which is tough as nails right from 1st

* being a better bullet-chucker (DuneD's Amateur Gunslinger retrains into Extra Grit for free, and Gunslinger Deeds beyond 1st will soon unlock)

* gaining +10 Challenge damage from cavalier levels w/Vambraces of the Tactician and Champion's Banner is more than plenty considering that the segue-into Gunslinger will eventually grant Gun Training for Dex-to-damage

* pulling out an Agile elven curve blade (which you'll just call a "dune scimitar" in keeping with your Arab theme) and go to town with a monster Dex score in melee without needing to blow a crap-ton of feats on the Snap-Shot chain to do it if restricted to a gun in a one-trick-pony concept.

-- Now all you have to do is wait for the GM to gift you with a mount that flies, and leave Tatooine behind.


Slim Jim wrote:

1) I assume those stats aren't 30pt-buy at 1st level.

2) Chain Challenge is a fantastic feat, but the firearms enthusiast cavalier will be irritated by the frequency at which he discovers he lacks additional opponents within 30', and further irritated by the frequency at which said opponents who are within 30' are also adjacent to him and thereby harshing his gunplay groove with their AoOs.

3) As alluded in 2), you are worthless in melee prior to 7th-level, and until then are unable to deploy your firearms effectively when enemies have you within their AoO zones.

4) Multiclassing a few fighter levels to front-load some feats wouldn't hurt.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

(assume OP's stats)

01 Fighter1 [Gendarme|Mounted Combat/Skill Focus:Ride], Indomitable Mount, Point-Blank Shot
02 DuneD1 [Extra Grit (retrained for free from AmatGun at 7th), Gunsmithing]
03 DuneD2 Rapid Shot
04 DuneD3 [Rapid Reload]
05 DuneD4 [Expert Trainer], Weapon Finesse
06 Fighter2 [combat feat: Horse Master]
07 Gunslinger1, Quick Draw or Chain Challenge

Gear: opalescent white pyramid ioun stone (martial proficiency: elven curve blade)

-- You now enjoy....

* Four feats at 1st level

* a full-level mount regardless of class which is tough as nails right at 1st

* being a better bullet-chucker (DuneD's Amateur Gunslinger retrains into Extra Grit for free, and Gunslinger Deeds beyond 1st will soon unlock)

* gaining +10 Challenge damage from cavalier levels w/Vambraces of the Tactician and Champion's Banner is more than plenty considering that the segue-into Gunslinger will eventually grant Gun Training for Dex-to-damage

* pulling out an Agile elven curve blade (which you'll just call a "dune scimitar" in keeping with your Arab theme) and go to town with a monster Dex score in melee without needing to blow a crap-ton of feats on the Snap-Shot chain to do it if restricted to a gun in a one-trick-pony concept.

-- Now...

Thats looks very good, thanks. How you think, after 7 level i need to take levels of Gunslinger or Dune cavalier. Also maybe for some melee 1 level of Swasbucler mill be good


Der! I wasn't finished editing booboos!

Quote:
How you think, after 7 level i need to take levels of Gunslinger or Dune cavalier. Also maybe for some melee 1 level of Swasbucler mill be good

Stay in Gunslinger at least until Gun5th. (A dip into a dex-rage class and taking Extra Rage at an odd-level is an option as well; two levels of Savage Technologist barbarian might be of interest if you stick to revolvers or other one-handed firearms). I'd probably just stay Gunslinger for the long-haul (unless you decide you're not interested in any of the Deeds after Dead Shot at Gun7th).

Keep an eye on your will save, as, aside from early melee, it's your glaring weakness as a human martial.

Make sure you saddle doesn't suck (especially if you get a flier).


Arab Half-elf or Elf sounds very intresting. In most cases i taking Human for bonus feat


Pro100Andr wrote:
Arab Half-elf or Elf sounds very intresting

Bah. You *killed* the elf, and took his sword. They should'a stayed in the forest.


so, there is no sence to take more then 4 levels of Cavalier?


My starting gold is 2500 gm, so i cant take Vambraces


Quote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
so, there is no sence to take more then 4 levels of Cavalier?
Not in Dune Drifter, if your chief interest was the guns. (What glues my submitted build together is that Dune Drifter retains Expert Trainer, which is required for Horse Master, which enables you to keep multiclassing beyond the four-steps-out limit of Boon Companion -- which is the feat non-Cavaliers are relegated to if they want to dabble out-of-class while keeping their animal up to snuff.
Quote:
My starting gold is 2500 gm, so i cant take Vambraces

I don't know what level you're starting at. (I assume you're playing a good, fair bit, as your OP build went to 12th.)

The vambraces and champions banner likely won't be affordable until 5th- to 7th anyway, depending upon how liberal your GM is with the gold, or whether your party has a Crafting "Santa Claus" wizard who makes everything half-priced for you.

(Getting that +1/Agile blade is a greater priority -- the utter worthlessness of being a Str 7 martial who's not a uRogue is why I really pumped up your animal. He is your bacon-saving *machine* until you get that sword upgraded.)

If you're playing from 1st, spend 24gp on a yak, and ride that during your fighter level. It has 42 hitpoints, and will be harder to kill than anything else in the party at that point.


Starting level is 7


Well, we havent a crafter. We have Arcanist, Fighter(Viking) and Magus. We will start game soon. Classes of teammates can changeses


Pro100Andr wrote:
Starting level is 7

Uhm, what? Do you have to buy all of your equipment out of a measly 2500gp? (PFS characters are richer at 4th level.)

This is a starvation-budget campaign if I ever saw one.

(Or are you getting screwed in particular because you're starting with some fabulously awesome gun that the GM is giving you?)


Slim Jim wrote:
Pro100Andr wrote:
Starting level is 7

Uhm, what? Do you have to buy all of your equipment out of a measly 2500gp? (PFS characters are richer at 4th level.)

This is a starvation-budget campaign if I ever saw one.

(Or are you getting screwed in particular because you're starting with some fabulously awesome gun that the GM is giving you?)

Starting gun, as a first gun is broken for other users, and deal 1 step lower damage


Also we not use magic items so often. We can gain 1 in 3-4 games


How the heck does your GM expect martials to not have a +1 weapon at 7th? (How is that poor Viking supposed to contribute with a masterwork weapon while the Magus is obliterating everything with Empowered spells? How old is this GM?)

If I were you, I'd heave a weary sigh, table this sandy gunslinger idea until you're under a GM who's not making WBL vanish under the floorboards, and play a straight-class Warpriest who uses guns.


What is the WBL?


Pro100Andr wrote:

What is the WBL?

Wealth By Level. (And this is only average; some campaigns, such as PFS, are "rich", and run 10% to 20% more.)

Martial characters are reliant upon gear; if your GM is only giving you one-tenth of what the game expects of you to have, then play a caster, and, if you're not a "pure wizard" type such as that arcanist, choose one of the few classes that can apply enhancements to their weapons on-the-fly. (Magus is one, Warpriest is another.)


well, game starts after 5 days, so maybe i can talk about that with him


Your party also has no discernible means of healing right now, and it's not like budgeting a third of your money on a wand of CLW will be doing you any wonders at 7th. (Is an NPC cleric tagging along?)

The warpriest back-up plan is looking better and better.


Slim Jim wrote:

Your party also has no discernible means of healing right now, and it's not like budgeting a third of your money on a wand of CLW will be doing you any wonders at 7th. (Is an NPC cleric tagging along?)

The warpriest back-up plan is looking better and better.

In most cases we have cleric or another sup class, if we havent it in team


GM is not give bonus money, but said we can choose 1 enchanted item(cost of item and enchantment no more then 10000 gp)


Well, if you want to try the Dune Drifter / Gunslinger build I proposed, go ahead, but this is what you should get:

Weapons:

* +1/Agile elysian bronze elven curve-blade (9,380gpm funded with your 10k single-item boon) with 600hp worth of precious jewels and elaborate filigree, and a matched 20gp ornate silver scabbard. Having an agile weapon critically means that your strength-dumped character won't be helpless in melee -- which will be every fight where enemies tired of being shot in the face rush you.

* Masterwork Pepperbox (normally 3,300gp, but you have Gunsmithing, so you've crafted it for half-price, or 1,650gp). With six barrels, you can now Rapid Shot easily with a single one-handed firearm.

* a Blunderbuss and a Musket (these are the broken-condition starter weapons you'll gain for free in the first levels of both Dune Drifter and Gunslinger, respectively); these are basically fire-and-forget weapons shot once during combat, and then dropped to dangle on weapon cords attached to the mount.

* Lasso (tied to your mount's saddle-horn), 1sp (several, since cheap) ....you're -3 to attack most targets (-4 non-proficiency, +1 elevation bonus mounted) but it's a ranged-touch attack, so especially good versus clumsy opponents with meager dexterity bonuses to AC.

...you have 850gp left....

I also get the impression that the GM isn't going to be lobbing saving-throw magic at you much, if ever (because he'd outright slaughter an equipment-deprived party, Wis10 humans in particular), and is just trying to keep it all really simple for him. In other words, you can skip the normally de rigueur Cloak of Resistance.

Armor (daily wear): chain coat (75gp) + armored kilt (20gp); this becomes a merged suit of heavy armor of AC+5 permitting a dex bonus of +5 (which is what you have with your 20 dex). --As a Str 7 character, you'll be pretty much "heavy load" encumbered all the time while upright and conscious, but this is alleviated by being mounted whenever possible (and, as a cavalier archetype, you have zero armor-check penalty while mounted). Do not ever wear this stuff near water without being tied to your mount (or something else), or you'll sink like a stone because Swim is a strength skill.

Armor (sleeping, or social situations where "battle-kit" is inappropriate): Parade armor (25gp). AC+3, Dex to +6), and you won't be fatigued in the morning. (I would just have the parade armor's tunic and other bits represent the "under-garments" portion of the chain-coat ensemble that are left after the heavy outer layers and kilt are taken off. In parade armor with a jeweled sword, a Cha16 character will be a very dashing figure indeed. (No one else in the party looks like a "face", so that role probably falls to you with your Diplomacy being a class skill.)

Shield: light quickdraw shield: AC+1. (Or no shield if you do not have Quick Draw)

Other stuff:
* Mount: studded-leather barding (100gp):
* Qadiran Military saddle: 275gp (+2 to Ride, 75% chance stay in saddle if unconscious, rider ignores AC penalty when mount charges).
* you'll want a gunsmithing kit, of course
* block and tackle, a pack-mule to carry it, along with lots of rope
* tons of sacks and saddlebags

~ ~ ~

Attributes: Drop Str to 7 to increase Int to 12 in point-buy. (Wisdom in a human martial is hopeless in a gear-deprived campaign, so just ignore it. Accept that the GM knows he can splat you with an Enchantress whenever he wants, you know that he knows, and accept what the fates bring.)

Traits: there's no need for Use Magic Device on a starvation-budget, so switch it out for Hongal Bloodrider to pick up a +1 to Ride and Handle Animal. (Ride fuels both Mounted Combat and Indomitable Mount.)

Animal companion leveling: get its intelligence to 3 so it can take regular combat feats instead of being restricted to just companion feats.

Skills: Diplomacy (class), Perception (class), Ride (class) will be kept maxed.

Cavalier Order: ...I'm going to recommend against Order of the Land since hitting things should not be that much of a problem for you (i.e., as opposed to bow archers dealing with armor bonus types that your guns bypass via ranged-touch half the time).

* ...Depending upon how you intend to roleplay the character (charming scoundrel, entitled heir to the throne of a vanquished kingdom, brazen pirate raider, etc), Order of the Cockatrice might be up your alley as a charisma-exploiting order (especially if you're also putting major points into Intimidate). It grants additional numeric damage (useful with an extended-threat melee weapon) on a Challenge, and Dazzling Display (which will grant an attack bonus as well, if you can get it off before initiative is called). One thing's for sure: in a campaign with rewards as meager as this one, you will definitely ALWAYS insist on being paid your share -- making the terms of the order's edict something you'll achieve in your sleep.


Slim Jim wrote:

Well, if you want to try the Dune Drifter / Gunslinger build I proposed, go ahead, but this is what you should get:

Weapons:

* +1/Agile elysian bronze elven curve-blade (9,380gpm funded with your 10k single-item boon) with 600hp worth of precious jewels and elaborate filigree, and a matched 20gp ornate silver scabbard. Having an agile weapon critically means that your strength-dumped character won't be helpless in melee -- which will be every fight where enemies tired of being shot in the face rush you.

* Masterwork Pepperbox (normally 3,300gp, but you have Gunsmithing, so you've crafted it for half-price, or 1,650gp). With six barrels, you can now Rapid Shot easily with a single one-handed firearm.

* a Blunderbuss and a Musket (these are the broken-condition starter weapons you'll gain for free in the first levels of both Dune Drifter and Gunslinger, respectively); these are basically fire-and-forget weapons shot once during combat, and then dropped to dangle on weapon cords attached to the mount.

* Lasso (tied to your mount's saddle-horn), 1sp (several, since cheap) ....you're -3 to attack most targets (-4 non-proficiency, +1 elevation bonus mounted) but it's a ranged-touch attack, so especially good versus clumsy opponents with meager dexterity bonuses to AC.

...you have 850gp left....

I also get the impression that the GM isn't going to be lobbing saving-throw magic at you much, if ever (because he'd outright slaughter an equipment-deprived party, Wis10 humans in particular), and is just trying to keep it all really simple for him. In other words, you can skip the normally de rigueur Cloak of Resistance.

Armor (daily wear): chain coat (75gp) + armored kilt (20gp); this becomes a merged suit of heavy armor of AC+5 permitting a dex bonus of +5 (which is what you have with your 20 dex). --As a Str 7 character, you'll be pretty much "heavy load" encumbered all the time while upright and conscious, but this is alleviated by being mounted whenever possible (and, as...

Thats looks great, thank you!


on the background of my people, our every metal like armor gain +1 Ac , and every metal weapon have hardness x1,5


Slim Jim wrote:

01 Fighter1 [Dragoon|Mounted Combat/Skill Focus:Ride], Indomitable Mount, Point-Blank Shot

02 DuneD1 [Extra Grit (retrained for free from AmatGun at 7th), Gunsmithing]
03 DuneD2 Rapid Shot
04 DuneD3 [Rapid Reload]
05 DuneD4 [Expert Trainer], Weapon Finesse
06 Fighter2 [combat feat: Horse Master]
07 Gunslinger1, Quick Draw or Chain Challenge

Errata.... Weapon Finesse at 1st, and Indomitable Mount at 5th (it has 5-rank skill prerequisites).

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