Monastic Weaponry, Stance attacks that have the Finesse trait, and non-Finesse Monk weapons

[LadyLightning]

When you use Monastic Weaponry with a Stance-based unarmed attack, such as a Wolf Jaw or a Tiger Claw, what final list of traits does the attack have? Only the Stance attack's traits? Only the weapon's traits? Both added together?

For context, I am trying to make a dagger-wielding Rogue / Monk, using Monastic Weaponry to be able to benefit while using dagger-like weapons.

Relevant Attack Traits

Wolf Jaw - Agile, Backstabber, Finesse, Nonlethal, Unarmed
Katar - Agile, Deadly d6, Monk
Sai - Agile, Disarm, Finesse, Monk, Versatile (B)

If I am using the Wolf Stance and making a Wolf Jaw attack with a Monk weapon (via Monastic Weaponry), do I need to use a Sai for my attack to have the Finesse trait, or will it inherit Finesse from the fact that it is a Wolf Jaw Strike, even though I am wielding a Katar to do it?

[masda_gib]

I'm sure they don't combine that way.
The wolf jaw unarmed attack is its own thing, you can't make that strike with a weapon.

With Monastic Weaponry you can only use monk weapons with geats that require general unarmed strikes. Like Flurry of Blows.

So you could get a monk weapon, be in wolf stance and flurry, making a weapon and a wolf jaw strike with one action.

[LadyLightning]

Monastic Weaponry's text seems to imply that you can, but not with very specifically limited abilities like Crane Stance.

"You can use melee monk weapons with any of your monk feats or monk abilities that normally require unarmed attacks, though not if the feat or ability requires you to use a single specific type of attack, such as Crane Stance."

I thought the whole point of the feat was to be able to use your stance attacks while wielding a weapon, and gain the potential benefits attached to a magick weapon, so you can use the +1 katar that just dropped instead of always griping that your DM never drops handwraps as loot! XD

Otherwise... what exactly is the point of the feat at all? Monk weapons mostly seem to be objectively worse than just using the style strikes themselves.

[masda_gib]

You can't use Monastic Weaponry with Crane Stance because Crane Stance ONLY allows Crane Wing attacks, not even "normal"/other unarmed attacks.

The point of the feat is to use monk weapons with stuff like Flurry of Blows, Ki Strike and Flying Kick. You can also use weapons while being in a stance (except some stances) and gain the stances passive benefits, like Tiger Stances better Steps.

Yes, your monk unarmed attacks from stances are numerically better than monk weapons most of the time. What you gain is some versatility. You can use the Bo staff for reach or other weapons for other traits (or trait combinations) you would not have with your unarmed strikes.

You still need handwraps for your unarmed strikes. ...Maybe buy or craft the simplest version of them? Then you can transfer runes of found weapons to them anytime. :)

[LadyLightning]

"Requirements: You are unarmored.

You enter the stance of a wolf, low to the ground with your hands held like fanged teeth. You can make wolf jaw unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8
piercing damage; are in the brawling group; and have the agile, backstabber, finesse, nonlethal, and unarmed traits.

If you’re flanking a target while in Wolf Stance, your wolf jaw unarmed attacks also gain the trip trait."

"Stance: A stance is a general combat strategy that you enter by using an action with the stance trait, and that you remain in for some time. A stance lasts until you get knocked out, until its requirements (if any) are violated, until the encounter ends, or until you enter a new stance, whichever comes first. After you take an action that has the stance trait, you can’t take another one for 1 round. You can enter or be in a stance only in encounter mode."

But that's a non-benefit. Nothing in the stances themselves (except Crane Stance, which ends if you use any strike that is not a Crane Wing), or the general definition of the Stance trait, requires that you have empty hands or use only unarmed strikes, they only require that you not be wearing armour (so plain clothes or explorer's clothing only), and for Mountain Stance, that you be touching the ground.

Is the whole point of the feat really for using Flurry of Blows with shurikens? It may just be simpler to reskin the Wolf Jaw strike as some kind of retractable wrist blade, rather than a weird claw-fingered pinch. XD

[masda_gib]

Ah, I was unclear there. The fact that you can use weapons in stances is not granted by Monastic Weaponry. MW just gives acces to better weapons (martial ones) that the monk can use. You could also take the fighter dedication for the same effect but MW scales better.

Yeah, Flurry is the main reason for that feat. ...but not with shurikens. It only works with melee weapons. ;)

[LadyLightning]

I suppose at that point, multiclassing into Ranger is more thematic for this particular Rogue. No weapon hate, and the one action for two Strikes is more reliant on dual wielding instead. Only against your Hunted Prey, but to be honest, you should be Hunting a target before you attack it anyway if you have the option, and it lends well to the assassin theme.

[PossibleCabbage]

The benefit of entering tiger stance when you're wielding a weapon is the 10' step, but if you're swinging with a bo staff you use the stats for the bo staff not the stats for the tiger claw attacks.

[Kios]

Yeah, monastic weaponry probably won't help your build. It's useful for monks using weapons to be able to start with uncommon weapons, gain proficiency with weapons that aren't simple, and to be able to use abilities like flurry of maneuvers to trip and attack in the same action with weapons. Unfortunately it can't be used with style-specific attacks.

I'm not sure how it really benefits a character that doesn't start as a monk.

[graystone]

Kios wrote:

I'm not sure how it really benefits a character that doesn't start as a monk.

Shuriken is one of the few weapons that has a reload of 0: as such, it can be used with a rangers Hunted Shot [sadly, something you can't say of flurry for some bizarre reason]. They are also Agile, so a ranger with the Hunters Edge [Flurry] can have a multiple attack penalty of -2/-4 [instead of -5/-10] and that drops to -1/-2 with the Masterful Hunter Upgrade.

So a -2 MAP on your 4th attack of the round would be how it "benefits a character that doesn't start as a monk."

For others, it gives access to a weapon that has Parry [of the other 2, one is martial and the other is uncommon]. Add to that, you can get Flurry and Focus spells on a class that normally doesn't get them: a rogue flurrying Nunchaku getting Ki Strike and sneak attack is doing pretty good.