Shield of reckoning and champion reaction


Rules Discussion


I have doubts towards different champion reactions with shield of reckoning.

Paladin's reaction

Quote:

Retributive Strike Reaction

Champion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 107
Trigger An enemy damages your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you.
You protect your ally and strike your foe. The ally gains resistance to all damage against the triggering damage equal to 2 + your level. If the foe is within reach, make a melee Strike against it.

Redemer's reaction

Quote:

Glimpse of Redemption Reaction

Champion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 107
Trigger An enemy damages your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you.
Your foe hesitates under the weight of sin as visions of redemption play in their mind’s eye. The foe must choose one of the following options:
The ally is unharmed by the triggering damage.
The ally gains resistance to all damage against the triggering damage equal to 2 + your level. After the damaging effect is applied, the enemy becomes enfeebled 2 until the end of its next turn.

Liberator's reaction

Quote:

Liberating Step Reaction

Champion
Source Core Rulebook pg. 107
Trigger An enemy damages, Grabs, or Grapples your ally, and both are within 15 feet of you.
You free an ally from restraint. If the trigger was an ally taking damage, the ally gains resistance to all damage against the triggering damage equal to 2 + your level. The ally can attempt to break free of effects grabbing, restraining, immobilizing, or paralyzing them. They either attempt a new save against one such effect that allows a save, or attempt to Escape from one effect as a free action. If they can move, the ally can Step as a free action, even if they didn’t need to escape.

Shield of reckoning

Quote:

PFS Legal Shield of Reckoning ReactionFeat 10

ChampionFlourish
Source Core Rulebook pg. 113
Prerequisites champion’s reaction, divine ally (shield), tenets of good, Shield Warden
Trigger A foe’s attack against an ally matches the trigger for both your Shield Block reaction and your champion’s reaction.
When you shield your ally against an attack, you call upon your power to protect your ally further. You use the Shield Block reaction to prevent damage to an ally and also use your champion’s reaction against the foe that attacked your ally.

I am not sure if paizo intendo to limit the use of the shield of reckoning as for instrument of Zeal, which now is only for paladins.

What do you think?

Seems that the shield block targets the ally, while the reaction only the enemy.

Which means that a retributive strike will only deal dmg to an enemy if used with a shield of reckoning.

The Liberator's step on the other hand would be unavailable because he couldn't target an enemy, but just an ally.


I think " also use your champion’s reaction against the foe that attacked your ally" is just typical Paizo loose language, and that Shield of Reckoning is meant to apply to all three currently existing Champion Reactions. Both the Redeemer and Paladin use their reaction against a foe directly. The Liberator's reaction does work against the foe, at least indirectly.

Or maybe I'm not understanding your concern correctly.


My concerns are towards the recent changes about instrument of Zeal feat.

The feat before was available for all champions, regardless their specialization.

Obviously, because of retributive strike, paladins were two steps ahead of redeemer and liberator.

With the recent errata, instrument of Zeal is still a feat for all champions, but it does nothing with both redeemer and liberator.

This makes no sense.
Instead, it is something meant to say "divine ally weapon is mostly for paladins, since some feats requires the paladin cause ".

Because of that I thought about shield of reckoning, and consider that maybe the way it is written is to allow only redeemer to shine with shields.

Note that the liberator reaction is not on an enemy, but on ally.

You give an ally damage reduction, and also a free escape check with a bonus.
The enemy is not even mentioned.

As for paladin reaction, it target both ally and enemy. You strike an enemy and give an ally damage reduction.

Glimpse of redemption only need an enemy as target. And it is the enemy the one who chooses if the ally takes not damage or just a reduced damage.

This is my consideration.

1) modifies about instrument of Zeal
2) glimpse of redemption being the only champion reaction which targets the enemy and not the ally ( or both ).


I agree with your feelings on Instrument of Zeal, and complained about it when the Errata came out.

I don't think the intent of Shield of Reckoning is to exclude any Champion reactions. "Against the foe" is vague, and I don't think it was meant to be read in a narrow sense.

I'll also argue that the Paladin reaction DOES target the foe, even if it also targets the ally. If we are going to take a narrow reading, it would still apply, just without the DR effect.


Sapient wrote:


I'll also argue that the Paladin reaction DOES target the foe, even if it also targets the ally. If we are going to take a narrow reading, it would still apply, just without the DR effect.

That is exactly what I was saying ( when i said you strike an enemy and give target a dr i was referring to the shield block ).

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