Optimize Paladin


Advice


Hello,

I am trying to optimize my paladin for max defense/damage to Evil Outsiders (Specifically Devils).

I need to keep race aasimar and I would prefer to keep Paladin. 20 point by - added abilities to Strength +2 and Charisma +2.

Any advice?

Mihály
Angel-blooded aasimar (angelkin) oracle 1/paladin (oath against fiends, divine defender) 15 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels 21, Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 42, 116, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 60)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +12
Aura courage (10 ft.), faith (10 ft.), justice (10 ft.), shared defense (15 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 31, touch 13, flat-footed 28 (+14 armor, +3 Dex, +4 natural)
hp 169 (16 HD; 1d8+15d10+86)
Fort +24, Ref +21, Will +23; +2 vs. [evil], +2 vs. death
Immune disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee valor's minion +26/+21/+16 (1d10+15/17-20 plus 2d6 vs. evil)
Ranged +1 adaptive bane greenwood composite longbow +17/+12/+7 (1d8+10/×3 plus 2d6 vs. )
Special Attacks channel positive energy 6/day (DC 23, 8d6), smite evil 5/day (+6 attack and AC, +15 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 15th; concentration +21)
. . At will—detect evil
Oracle Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +7)
. . 1st (5/day)—celestial healing, comprehend languages, cure light wounds
. . 0 (at will)—create water, ghost sound (DC 16), light, mage hand, purify food and drink (DC 16), read magic
. . Mystery Battle
Paladin (Oath against Fiends, Divine Defender) Spells Prepared (CL 12th; concentration +18)
. . 4th—crusader's edge (DC 20), sacrificial oath[APG] (DC 20)
. . 3rd—burst of speed[UC], life current (DC 19), shield of wings
. . 2nd—inheritor's smite, protection from outsiders, righteous vigor[APG] (DC 18), shield other
. . 1st—bless, challenge evil[APG] (DC 17), divine favor, fallback strategy, lesser restoration
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 10, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 22
Base Atk +15; CMB +24; CMD 33
Feats Angelic Blood[ARG], Cornugon Smash, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Fey Foundling[ISWG], Furious Focus[APG], Improved Critical (bastard sword), Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack
Traits armor expert, omen
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 to jump), Diplomacy +10, Fly +1, Heal +8, Intimidate +28, Knowledge (planes) +13 (+15 vs. Devil), Knowledge (religion) +9 (+11 vs. Devil), Perception +12, Ride +2, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Heal, +2 Knowledge (planes)
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ anchoring aura, divine bond (weapon +4, 3/day), exalted resistance[ARG], holy vessel, lay on hands 13/day (7d6), oracle's curse (haunted), revelation (sidestep secret)
Other Gear angel's wings, +1 adaptive bane greenwood composite longbow, valor's minion[UE], amulet of natural armor +4, belt of physical might +6 (Str, Con), cloak of resistance +4, headband of mental prowess +4 (Wis, Cha), 3,865 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Anchoring Aura (DC 23) (Su) At 8th level, a paladin's aura hampers extradimensional travel by evil outsiders. The aura extends 20 feet from the paladin. Evil outsiders attempting to use abilities such as dimension door, plane shift, or teleport to leave or
Angelic Blood +2 saves vs. evil effects, to stabilize while dying, and 1 damage to evil or undead if bleeding.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Faith (10 ft.) (Su) Attacks vs. foes in range bypass DR as good-aligned. Own attacks always count as good.
Aura of Justice (10 ft.) (Su) As a standard action use 2 smite evil, allies in area gain smite at your bonus for 1 min.
Cornugon Smash When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +4, 15 mins, 3/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Exalted Resistance (21) You have spell resistance 21 vs. evil spells, or any spell cast by evil outsiders.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Haunted Retrieving stored gear is a Standard action or worse, dropped items land 10' away.
Holy Vessel (Su) At 9th level, a paladin whose divine bond is with a weapon can also use her divine bond to augment her armor or shield with enhancement bonuses, or add any of the following armor or shield properties: bashing, fortification, and spel
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (7d6 hit points, 13/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 8d6 (6/day, DC 23) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shared Defense (6 rounds, 15 ft., +3 AC, immune to bleeding, stabilize) (Su) Lay on hands use: Aura provides AC and other bonuses to allies.
Smite Evil (5/day) (Su) +6 to hit, +15 to damage, +6 deflection bonus to AC when used.

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1. Get rid of the Oracle level.

2. Change Oath against Fiends and Divine Defender for Faithful Wanderer. This is 100% for s$#@s and giggles, but it does really allow you to go on all day killing fiends and gives you more skills to play with.

Sovereign Court

Well, first those two archetypes (Oath against Fiends and Divine Defender) don't stack because Oath replaces the 9th level mercy and Divine Defender replaces all mercies.
I like Oath vs Fiends because you get Resist Energy in a 1st level slot. And I like Hospitaler for spamming Smite Evil. Whats that you say? Hospitaler gets fewer Smite Evils per day? Nonsense!

Grab 2 levels of Ninja because nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition... er... Palaninja!
Ki Channel + Tea of Transference + Hospitaler (not that you need the archetype once you get 3 or more dice on channel) = more smite evil per day than an Oath of Vengeance Paladin.


You can't take Oath Against Fiends and Divine Defender together. Holy Vessel (Oath Against Fiends) replaces your 9th level Mercy, but Shared Defence (Divine Defender) replaces your Mercy class feature alltogether. Personally I think Oath Against Fiends is better.

What's the reason for the Oracle dip? You don't need the spells, you can't use the save portion of sidestep secret (you're already getting CHA to all saves) and I assume you're wearing heavy armour, so CHA to AC doesn't give you much. The mystery is actually a detriment with no upside (If this is for flavour then go for it, but it's not goid from an optimisation standpoint).

What Armour ARE you wearing? I'm assuming some form of heavy-plate?

I couldn't find an item called "Angel's Wings" online. Was that meant to be the feat?

Valor's Minion isn't great. +2 Holy Bastard Sword & +3 damage on a Smite for 41,335gp (at the cost of 2 smites). OR you could buy a +2 Holy Bastard Sword (32,335gp) and a pair of BRACERS OF THE AVENGING KNIGHT (11,500gp). The damage is 1 hetter and it doesn't cost you 2 smites to have effect (Also personally I'd probably go Evil Outsider Bane rather than Holy).

Other than that your feats look good, Paladins are always good.


Thanks for the great feedback - I fixed the Archetypes and Sword.
Question - does the damage from Holy and Bane (evil outsiders) stack? If so I am going with a +1 holy bane (evil outsiders) silversheen bastard sword and the bracers.

Re: Armor

It is mithril full plate with Crusading (+1), Radiant, Reliquary (holy), Withstanding (evil outsiders).

Any thoughts about the Crimson Templar PrC?

Grand Lodge

Holy and Bane are technically different bonuses, so it should stack. But I would say you should prioritize base enchant. I would remove the Holy to get the weapon at +3, but that's just me.

The fight between being specialized and having more general defences.


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Holy and bane absolutely stack.

Note that the 2d6 damage from Holy and the 2d6 damage from Bane do NOT multiply on a critical hit, but that Bane also gives a flat +2 to hit and to damage, and that this flat +2 to damage DOES multiply on a crit.

I recommended bane because it seemed to fit your character (Evil Outsider Bane) and because it's almost always the strongest and cheapest enchantment you can get - if you're fighting the right enemies. Holy would work on a much larger group of enemies, but costs twice as much and is half as strong. It depends what you think you'll be facing (Holy is especially fitting for a Paladin though).

Also since we're talking about great items, I know I suggested those bracers but personally I'm a huge fan of the other Paladin bracers: BRACERS OF THE MERCIFUL KNIGHT. With the character you showed above you have 169hp. Your lay on hands are currently healing you ~500hp per day (669 total from full hp to 0hp). With this item it jumps to ~742hp healed per day (911 total).


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Most devils are quite adept with all kinds magic and illusions, disease, and poisons. I'd recommend getting mercies like Ensorcelled, Deceived, Haunted, Diseased, and Poisoned. Not just for yourself, but for your party as well.


Wow - thanks everybody. You have been so helpful. Nice to be part of such a great community!


New and improved version:

Mihály
Angel-blooded aasimar (angelkin) paladin (oath against fiends) 16 (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels 21, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 7, Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 60)
LG Medium outsider (native)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +9
Aura courage (10 ft.), faith (10 ft.), justice (10 ft.)
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 28, touch 10, flat-footed 28 (+14 armor, +4 natural)
hp 172 (16d10+87)
Fort +25, Ref +15, Will +22; +2 vs. [evil], +2 vs. death
Immune disease, fear
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor)
Melee +1 evil outsiders-bane holy silversheen bastard sword +25/+20/+15/+10 (1d10+13/17-20 plus 2d6 vs. Evil Outsiders and 2d6 vs. evil)
Ranged +1 adaptive bane greenwood composite longbow +17/+12/+7/+2 (1d8+9/×3 plus 2d6 vs. )
Special Attacks channel positive energy 7/day (DC 24, 8d6), smite evil 6/day (+6 attack and AC, +20 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 16th; concentration +22)
. . At will—detect evil
Paladin (Oath against Fiends) Spells Prepared (CL 13th; concentration +19)
. . 4th—crusader's edge (DC 20), sacrificial oath[APG] (DC 20)
. . 3rd—burst of speed[UC], life current (DC 19), shield of wings
. . 2nd—inheritor's smite, communal protection from evil[UC], protection from outsiders, righteous vigor[APG] (DC 18), shield other
. . 1st—bless, challenge evil[APG] (DC 17), divine favor, fallback strategy, lesser restoration
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 26, Dex 10, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 22
Base Atk +16; CMB +24; CMD 34
Feats Angelic Blood[ARG], Cornugon Smash, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword), Fey Foundling[ISWG], Furious Focus[APG], Improved Critical (bastard sword), Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack
Traits armor expert, omen
Skills Acrobatics -2 (-6 to jump), Diplomacy +10, Fly +1, Heal +8, Intimidate +26, Knowledge (planes) +10 (+12 vs. evil outsider), Knowledge (religion) +9 (+11 vs. evil outsider), Perception +9, Ride +2, Sense Motive +6, Spellcraft +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Heal, +2 Knowledge (planes)
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ anchoring aura, divine bond (weapon +4, 3/day), exalted resistance[ARG], holy vessel, lay on hands 14/day (8d6), mercies (diseased, ensorcelled, haunted, poisoned)
Other Gear angel's wings, +1 adaptive bane greenwood composite longbow, +1 evil outsiders-bane holy silversheen bastard sword, amulet of natural armor +4, belt of physical might +6 (Str, Con), bracers of the avenging knight[UE], cloak of resistance +4, headband of mental prowess +4 (Wis, Cha), 915 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Anchoring Aura (DC 24) (Su) At 8th level, a paladin's aura hampers extradimensional travel by evil outsiders. The aura extends 20 feet from the paladin. Evil outsiders attempting to use abilities such as dimension door, plane shift, or teleport to leave or
Angelic Blood +2 saves vs. evil effects, to stabilize while dying, and 1 damage to evil or undead if bleeding.
Aura of Courage +4 (10 ft.) (Su) Allies in aura gain a morale bonus to saves vs. fear.
Aura of Faith (10 ft.) (Su) Attacks vs. foes in range bypass DR as good-aligned. Own attacks always count as good.
Aura of Justice (10 ft.) (Su) As a standard action use 2 smite evil, allies in area gain smite at your bonus for 1 min.
Cornugon Smash When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Bond (Weapon +4, 16 mins, 3/day) (Sp) Weapon shines with light and gains enhancement bonuses or chosen properties.
Exalted Resistance (21) You have spell resistance 21 vs. evil spells, or any spell cast by evil outsiders.
Fey Foundling Magical healing works better on you
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Holy Vessel (Su) At 9th level, a paladin whose divine bond is with a weapon can also use her divine bond to augment her armor or shield with enhancement bonuses, or add any of the following armor or shield properties: bashing, fortification, and spel
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Immunity to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Lay on Hands (8d6 hit points, 14/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Mercy (Diseased) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes disease, as per the remove disease spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Mercy (Ensorcelled) (Su) Remove effects of hostile spells as dispel magic spell.
Mercy (Haunted) (Su) As protection from evil, but only grants new save and prevents posses/mental control.
Mercy (Poisoned) (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also neutralizes poisons, as per the neutralize poison spell at a caster level of your Paladin level.
Paladin Channel Positive Energy 8d6 (7/day, DC 24) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Power Attack -5/+10 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Smite Evil (6/day) (Su) +6 to hit, +20 to damage, +6 deflection bonus to AC when used.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at https://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Inc.®, and are used under license.


So long as we can all agree that paladins are 100% found by fae in the woods. There is no singular exception.

Grand Lodge

My GMs in home games ban fey foundling unless the characters are gnomes, doesn't sound a bad houserule. Seeing many fey-touched tiefling paladins, I was initially a fan due to big mechanical benefits (and I could still create one easily), but lore-wise it's hard to make sense of.


I know people have a problem with it, but (as I've said before) I love this unwritten macro-story of Golarion.

Churches of good gods take in orphans and vet them for potential. Those with certain afinities are fast-tracked to the martial arm of the church and trained to repress their chaotic natures.

Years later they emerge from the cloister and set out into the world seeking adventure (their chaotic nature cannot be completely quelled), with a desire to help those in need.


Why would a good God want to repress a chaotic nature?

Grand Lodge

I would bet Iomedae wouldn't take too kindly on characters causing so much of a bazaar, even worse for Erastil in instance, Law being literally one of his domain portfolio.


Then wouldn't it be better to say a lawful one would want to repress a chaotic nature?


No you need that underlying chaotic nature to ensure they'll have the drive to go adventuring. A truly lawful Paladin would stand guard at the gates for 100 years. That little chaotic spark gets that poweful force of good out into the world, spreading the tenets of your faith to the corners of the world and combating evil where it's most needed.


Unless your deity is one of these "go out and fight evil" ones, for which what you describe would be strictly lawful.

This goes doubly for Paladins of Iomedae, because "[o]f all the good churches on Golarion, Iomedae's is the most aggressive in seeking out and fighting evil. Her priests prefer to be out questing rather than doing mundane tasks in a city." ISG pg. 79

Philippe Lam wrote:
even worse for Erastil in instance, Law being literally one of his domain portfolio.

All deities have their non-neutral alignment components as domains. Always.


Looks pretty solid for some devil killing.

The only thing you might consider adding is a +1 Cruel Enchant to your weapon because you already have Cornugon Smash and you also have a +26 to Intimidate.

Cruel Enchant wrote:

Cruel

Price +1 bonus; Aura faint necromancy; CL 5th; Weight —

DESCRIPTION

When the wielder strikes a creature that is frightened, shaken, or panicked with a cruel weapon, that creature becomes sickened for 1 round. When the wielder uses the weapon to knock unconscious or kill a creature, he gains 5 temporary hit points that last for 10 minutes.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Craft Magic Arms and Armor; Spells cause fear, death knell; Cost +1 bonus

So currently, any time you Power Attack, you get a Free Intimidate Check to Shaken (-2 att, saves, skills, abil checks). By adding a +1 Cruel enchant to your weapon, any time you attack a Shakened target, you also Sicken the target for an additional -2 att, saves, skills, abil checks, and -2 dmg. These debuffs stack with each other, so that becomes -4 att, saves, skills, abils, and a -2 dmg.

As an added bonus, any time you deal a killing blow to any target, you gain 5 temp HP. It's not a ton, but it negates 5 dmg from the next attack you suffer, so it's kinda like gaining DR5/- for 1 hit after you deal a killing blow. Not too shabby.

Shaken & Sicken wrote:

Shaken

A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

Sickened

The character takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

This increases your own survivability because now they have a -4 to hit you, AND your group will love you because that target now has a -4 to save against their spells/abilities. If you have Smite Evil up vs. this shakened/sickened target, you've effectively made that target have a -10 to hit you.

As far as I'm aware, almost every devil is immune to Fire and Poison, but not to Shaken or Sicken. I'd have to make a comprehensive search to find one that's immune to Shaken or Sicken, but I don't think there's that many.


Cavall wrote:
So long as we can all agree that paladins are 100% found by fae in the woods. There is no singular exception.

Truth - it does feel cheesy. I tend to write TL;DR backstories but this is one I did not account for. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement?

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Looks pretty solid for some devil killing.

The only thing you might consider adding is a +1 Cruel Enchant to your weapon because you already have Cornugon Smash and you also have a +26 to Intimidate.

Nice - Maybe I will replace Holy with Cruel and a +1.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.


TheBobJones wrote:
Cavall wrote:
So long as we can all agree that paladins are 100% found by fae in the woods. There is no singular exception.

Truth - it does feel cheesy. I tend to write TL;DR backstories but this is one I did not account for. Do you have a recommendation for a replacement?

Ryze Kuja wrote:

Looks pretty solid for some devil killing.

The only thing you might consider adding is a +1 Cruel Enchant to your weapon because you already have Cornugon Smash and you also have a +26 to Intimidate.

Nice - Maybe I will replace Holy with Cruel and a +1.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Honestly? So long as you work it in, do it once. Works for your build and you can have fun. But yeah after a while its really cheesy how common it is.

But hey if you're going to try it once may as well. Not like theres another pally beside you. Though if he was, once again, 100% chance hes also found by fae in the woods as a baby.

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