Barbarian Warpriest multiclass


Advice


I want a divine character who worships their rage and the act of raging in accordance with Dionysus edicts of revelry and ecstasy, or a suitable replacement god. I figure I'll make a Half-Orc Barbarian that takes the alternate racial trait Orc-Atavism for universal ferocity, take Moment of Clarity, and do a natural weapon build because it feels right to be ripping people apart with my bare claws and bites in this build. As for Warpriest, I enjoy the blessings of Healing and War, weapon focus claws, and move forward with primarily using fervor to heal and spells to buff or disable until I get channeling to top it off.

Any tips to make this more survivable or more metal? I'm willing to sift through archetypes, I just know I want it to be a holy-rager who utilizes ferocity.


A bloodrager can mix spellcasting in easier via the mad magic feat.


Thanks, that frees up the bloodline feat that would give me claws for the mad magic feat and then grants more spells later.


For a Natural Attack build, I favor Tengu. You can get 2 Claws and a bite to start off with.

As a Warpriest, Lesser Restoration is a level 1 Spell, and so you can remove your Fatigue. If you are a Dreadnaught Barbarian, you will not get Fatigued when you come out of Rage, and you will still be able to cast Spells while Raging.

If you take a 2nd level in Barbarian, you can take Lesser Fiend Totem and get a Gore Attack on top of your Claws and Bite.

If you dip a level in White Haired Witch, you get another Natural Attack, a Hair Attack.

Barbarian Rage gives a Strength bonus, and that applies to all your many, many Natural Attacks.

If you go Half Orc, you can get your Bite Attack as an Alternate Racial Trait, then with a 2 level dip in Barbarian, you can take Lesser Beast Totem and get 2 Claw Attacks that way. You can't take both lesser Beast and Fiend totems, so to get your Gore Attack you need some other way such as a Helm of the Mammoth Lord or an Animal Mask.

If you dip a level in Ranger with the Freebooter Archetype, you get Freebooter's Bane instead of Favored Enemy. It grants a +1 Attack and Damage for all your Attacks and your Allies' Attacks as a Move Action against any 1 chosen enemy until the combat is over or you designeate some other enemy as a Move Action. This will also allow you to use a Strong Jaw Spell, which gives you a Virtual 2 Size bump to your Natural Attacks.

Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage applies to your Deity's Favored Weapon and to any weapon you take Weapon Focus with. The Damage is 1d6 to start, so only need Weapon Focus Claws and Hair to start. There are deities whose Favored Weapon is Bite. I like Dahak, the Dragon god of Destruction, because the Destruction Blessing is awesome: +1 on all weapon damage every other level. The Barbarian Gore does 1d8 to start, so there's no need to take Weapon Focus Gore till after level 5 Warpriest.

If you go Half Orc, you can take Amplified Rage, which gives you an additional +4 Strength when Raging. It's a Teamwork Feat, so you need some other way of giving the Feat to your allies. You could dip a level in Cavalier or be a Divine Commander Warpriest, either of which gives you the Tactician Class Ability that lets you give your Teamwork Feat to your allies. You also need your Ally to Rage. You were thinking about being a Bloodrager. Rage is a level 3 Bloodrager Spell. Raging Mount will let an animal you are riding on Rage. Rage is also a Domain Spell, but Warpriests don't get Domains.

If you dip a level in Living Monolith, you get to Enlarge Person as a Swift Action, giving your base Damage another size Bump. So if, say you have 5 levels in Warpriest, and have a Wand of Strong Jaw, your base Damage goes up 3 spots from 1d8-3d6 per attack.

If you hit someone with your White Hair, you get a free Grapple Attack. If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get to do Armor Spike Damage with every successful Grapple Attack, which also can do Sacred Weapon Damage and benefit from the Lesser Blessing of Destruction. If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, every Piercing Attack--Bite and Gore--also gets a Free Grapple Attack. If you take the Weapon Versatility Feat, your Claw Attacks can do Piercing Damage.

So now we got you 2 Claws, Hair, Bite, and Gore, all of which do Sacred Weapon Damage, bumped up 3 size slots by a Wand of Strong Jaw an a dip into Living Monolith, and all of which trigger free Grapple Attacks that all inflict Armor Spike Damage, which also benefit from Freebooter's Bane, Rage, and the Blessing of Destruction.

Lots of high-damage attacks.

With respect to survivability, as a Warpriest, you can heal and self buff as regular spells and as a Swift Action using Fervor.


@Scott Wilhelm

thoughts on the build:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
So if, say you have 5 levels in Warpriest, and have a Wand of Strong Jaw, your base Damage goes up 3 spots from 1d8-3d6 per attack.

1d8 increases to 4d6, not 3d6. (1d8->2d6->3d6->4d6)

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If you dip a level in White Haired Witch, you get another Natural Attack, a Hair Attack.

WHW can be awesome, but it may not be the best dip for this build. Considering that the grapple check uses Intelligence in place of Strength and the base is Warpriest, the CMB bonus will probably just be BAB+1 since you're both MAD and prioritize Wisdom.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

If you dip a level in Ranger with the Freebooter Archetype, you get Freebooter's Bane instead of Favored Enemy. /.../

This will also allow you to use a Strong Jaw Spell, which gives you a Virtual 2 Size bump to your Natural Attacks.

Honestly, this isn't remotely worth it. The Freebooter's Bane ability has horrible action economy for someone depending on full-attacks, and is pretty much only passable if you fight one enemy per encounter.

Dipping for Wands isn't worth it either, since a wand of Strong Jaw costs 15,750 gp. By the time you can set aside that much for a single wand, you should have a passable UMD bonus and can buy a Wand Key Ring to auto-succeed with your wand. No reason to waste a level on ranger.

=====

There's a lot of unnecessary dipping considering that the base is a 6th level caster, and that you're apparently trying to get a lot of mileage out of Sacred Weapon which is fully level-dependent. If you really want to spend so many feats making Sacred Weapon work, just go Half-Orc and grab Weapon Versatility (Weapon Focus) to save two feats you would have used on Weapon Focus.

***

=====

@Moldorga

Multiclassing a 6th level caster with something using rage isn't recommended, since you're both delaying your spells and making yourself unable to use anything requiring concentration. Moment of Clarity messes with your swift actions which you'll really want as a Warpriest, so the Dreadnought recommended by Scott Wilhelm is probably your best bet unless you secure rage-cycling from somewhere else.

But the best rage powers are dependent on your class level, and so are all your Warpriest abilities. Not to mention you'll also need to take Extra Rage twice or so to last you a whole day. Instead of multiclassing, I'd recommend you to take Racial Heritage (Ogre) and pick up rage powers through the Raging Brute feat. That would allow you to get some high-level rage powers while benefiting from being a fully leveled 6th level caster.


I really appreciate the level dip tips, I'm going to make a character that I will dub Trogdor and they will definitely include the white haired witch and grapple stuff and leave healing to another member of the party. Head banging and maybe body budgeoning for the most metal build with armor spikes and brutality sounds awesome.


Wonderstell wrote:
WHW can be awesome, but it may not be the best dip for this build. Considering that the grapple check uses Intelligence in place of Strength and the base is Warpriest, the CMB bonus will probably just be BAB+1 since you're both MAD and prioritize Wisdom.

Meh, the dip still gives you 2 extra attacks that do Sacred Weapon Damage with no attack penalty. I don't see it as such a problem if the 2nd attack isn't all you could want it to be.

Wonderstell wrote:
The Freebooter's Bane ability has horrible action economy for someone depending on full-attacks, and is pretty much only passable if you fight one enemy per encounter.

I've used Freebooter's Bane a lot in Pathfinder Society, and I have found it to be the gift that keeps on giving.

I often find taking a round to self buff to be totally worthwhile and reasonable: Strong Jaw (or Lead Blades or Gravity Bow for another character) as a Standard Action, Freebooter's Bane as a Move Action, then Enlarge as a Swift Action (or Bull Strength as a Swift Action) to be a perfectly reasonable use of the first round of combat.

Wonderstell wrote:
Dipping for Wands isn't worth it either, since a wand of Strong Jaw costs 15,750 gp.

If you get 5 Attacks/round: Hair, Gore, Bite, an 2 Claws, being able to Strong Jaw yourself and self-buff in 1 round so that all your 5 of your attacks go from 1d8 to 4d6 seems very, very worth it. That's like +50 damage/round, dude.

Wonderstell wrote:
There's a lot of unnecessary dipping considering that the base is a 6th level caster

I was not thinking that all that advice and dipping I was putting out there would be squeezed in to just 6 levels! I missed the part where this was a level 6 build.

I was not intending to suggest a single build, but rather lots of ideas that could go into a build. He's thinking of a Half Orc: I favor Tengu, but I worked in a suggestion for Amplified Rage. I suggested Rage, a Bloodrager Spell, not a Cleric Spell, because there was thought of his being a Bloodrager and not a Warpriest.

The Blessing of Destruction gives +1 Damage every 2 levels. Rage gives +1 Attack and Damage. Freebooter's Bane gives +1 Attack and Damage to the OP and all his allies, but as a Move Action and 1 Target at a time. A 2nd dip in Barbarian gives another Natural Attack. A dip in White Haired Witch gives you 2, 1 if your criticism bears out, but still nice. I should be considered to be throwing out a lot of different suggestions for any of a number of builds, definitely not a single, level 6 build.

By the way, the Wand Key Ring is cool.

I'm not so sure about Raging Brute, though. It requires him being an Ogre. So you also are recommending he take the Human Feat Racial Heritage Ogre so that he can then take Raging Brute? What other Ogre Feats would you have him take to make that worthwhile?


just avoiding walls of text:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

I've used Freebooter's Bane a lot in Pathfinder Society, and I have found it to be the gift that keeps on giving.

I often find taking a round to self buff to be totally worthwhile and reasonable: Strong Jaw (or Lead Blades or Gravity Bow for another character) as a Standard Action, Freebooter's Bane as a Move Action, then Enlarge as a Swift Action (or Bull Strength as a Swift Action)

...and when that one creature is dead? You do not want to spend move actions after combat has started, so it's just good for one creature per fight. Considering you delay your main class features for a whole level just to get very circumstantial +1/+1, it's a very steep cost.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
Dipping for Wands isn't worth it either, since a wand of Strong Jaw costs 15,750 gp.
If you get 5 Attacks/round: Hair, Gore, Bite, an 2 Claws, being able to Strong Jaw yourself and self-buff in 1 round so that all your 5 of your attacks go from 1d8 to 4d6 seems very, very worth it. That's like +50 damage/round, dude.

The point I was making is easier to understand if you read the whole paragraph.

Quote:
Dipping for Wands isn't worth it either, since a wand of Strong Jaw costs 15,750 gp. By the time you can set aside that much for a single wand, you should have a passable UMD bonus and can buy a Wand Key Ring to auto-succeed with your wand. No reason to waste a level on ranger.

You do not have to take a level of ranger to use the Strong Jaw Wand. You only need to make a DC 20 UMD skill check. When you actually have the cash to buy wands worth 16,000 gp or more, you're at such a high level that you should easily make the DC 20 check with minimal investment. Dipping one level of ranger for the purpose of Strong Jaw is completely unnecessary when we're talking about wands of third level spells.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
There's a lot of unnecessary dipping considering that the base is a 6th level caster
I was not thinking that all that advice and dipping I was putting out there would be squeezed in to just 6 levels! I missed the part where this was a level 6 build.

My bad, that was a bit confusing. I meant "caster with access to 6th level spell slots", not a lv 6 character.

***

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I'm not so sure about Raging Brute, though. It requires him being an Ogre. So you also are recommending he take the Human Feat Racial Heritage Ogre so that he can then take Raging Brute? What other Ogre Feats would you have him take to make that worthwhile?

Check the "special" paragraph of the feat. You can take it multiple times, and the effect 'stacks'.

If you've taken Raging Brute three times and chosen three rage powers (let's say the Beast Totem powers), you can use the feat three times per day and gain all three of your chosen rage powers during each activation. If you've taken it seven times, you can use it seven times per day and benefit from seven rage powers during each of those uses.


Wonderstell wrote:
...and when that one creature is dead?

Then you have to spend a Move Action to re-designate. I was having this argument with Derklord a little bit ago. It seems to me that if you are having a real problem missing out on attacks because your enemies are dropping so fast and you keep having to move on to the next one, well, the problem seems to be that your party is winning, actually humiliating and dominating your opponents, and it seems like a non-problem, problem, that you aren't winning by more.

But he wants to win by more, so he really likes Pounce. I guess it is fair to say that Freebooter's Bane is less good with a Pouncing character? I just don't see how this is not a very, very minor complaint.

Wonderstell wrote:
Check the "special" paragraph of the feat. You can take it multiple times, and the effect 'stacks'.

Okay, so you are suggesting he take Racial Heritage Ogre and take Raging Brute lots of times so he gets lots of Rage Powers?


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
Check the "special" paragraph of the feat. You can take it multiple times, and the effect 'stacks'.
Okay, so you are suggesting he take Racial Heritage Ogre and take Raging Brute lots of times so he gets lots of Rage Powers?

Yup yup.

Consider a strange Warpriest 6 / Barbarian 6 multiclass to a Warpriest 12 taking the Raging Brute feat several times to get rage powers. The Warpriest 12 has access to 9th lv rage powers, has their major blessings and got two more entire spell levels.
Multiclassing is generally something you do on full BAB characters, since their high level class features are usually lackluster compared to 6th and 9th level casting.

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
...and when that one creature is dead?

Then you have to spend a Move Action to re-designate. I was having this argument with Derklord a little bit ago. It seems to me that if you are having a real problem missing out on attacks because your enemies are dropping so fast and you keep having to move on to the next one, well, the problem seems to be that your party is winning, actually humiliating and dominating your opponents, and it seems like a non-problem, problem, that you aren't winning by more.

But he wants to win by more, so he really likes Pounce. I guess it is fair to say that Freebooter's Bane is less good with a Pouncing character? I just don't see how this is not a very, very minor complaint.

I think the complaint is that the +1/+1 bonus is never worth not full-attacking or even standard action attacking. So no matter if you have pounce or not, you're better off attacking than using that ability.

It's not a matter of "winning more", but that using the ability is actually making your character perform worse than if you didn't.


Wonderstell wrote:
I think the complaint is that the +1/+1 bonus is never worth not full-attacking or even standard action attacking. So no matter if you have pounce or not, you're better off attacking than using that ability.

Don't forget though, that with Freebooter's Bane, that +1/+1 goes to all your allies, not just you. It really might give the party higher numbers if your use Freebooter's Bane than if you Standard Action Attack.

And even if the numbers are better through a Standard Action Attack, the party might appreciate it if you give them all a bonus, and the appreciation of your fellows is worth something.


Depends on the group. I know 2-3 people who couldn't be arsed adding a temporary +1 bonus in (one of the reasons PF2 isn't a starter for us). It is better numbers-wise than a +1 bonus just for yourself though.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
If you go Half Orc, you can take Amplified Rage, which gives you an additional +4 Strength when Raging. It's a Teamwork Feat, so you need some other way of giving the Feat to your allies. You could dip a level in Cavalier or be a Divine Commander Warpriest, either of which gives you the Tactician Class Ability that lets you give your Teamwork Feat to your allies.

That combo right there.

There are details that need ironing out: 1) you need pals (at least one) who can rage, and 2) you need a mechanism for sharing Amplified rage with it/them sans prerequisites.

(I am not enamored of Ferocity, btw; you need a lot of gimmicks to sustain viable under-zero antics, and the problem is, the higher level you get, the smaller and smaller your neg-con to zero zone shrinks as a percentage of your total hitpoint bulk. When monsters are doing high double-digits per smack, you're better off having means of negating their hits or damage in the first place.)

~ ~ ~ ~

01 Monk1 [Sohei][Devoted Guardian][Mounted Skirmisher], Mounted Combat
02 Monk2 [Wheeling Charge]

...Now change alignment to chaotic (it's what happens when boy half-orcs reach puberty) and get kicked out of the monastery, but retain all monk class abilities -- because that's how ex-monks roll.

03 Barbarian1 [core, or (SavTech/Drunken Brute)], Extra Rage
04 Warpriest1 [Divine Commander][Mount]
05 Warpriest2 [fervor], Boon Companion
06 Warpriest3 [Teamwork:Amplified Rage]
07 Barbarian2 [Uncanny Dodge][rage power: Ferocious Beast], Extra Rage Power [Beast Totem]
08 Warpriest4 ...etc.

The build starts slow, of course, due to alignment constraints, but you'll have plenty of fun at 1st riding a 24gp Yak pack-animal with 42hp. It moves, and you get your full-attack (Flurry of Blows) due to Sohei being able to take Mounted Skirmisher without prerequisites.

For barbarian, I like SavTech archetype because it keeps your AC up, and avoids the need for Raging Vitality. Once Warpriest Divine Commander rolls around, you're on a full-level sidekick and sharing +8 to strength and con (or dex if SavTech) with it while raging (and sharing those bonuses to the rest of the party as well).

Given how important the animal is to the build, I'd delay the natural weapon antics until higher level, and just keep flurrying with a pair of opalescent white pyramid made-kosher waveblades. (In which case, don't go Extra Rage Power at 7th, but instead take Indomitable Mount.)

I forget the name of the feat (or maybe it's a mount feat) that permits you to ride a creature your size -- and that would obviously be useful if you like to Enlarge yourself, but lack the capacity to make your mount bigger. (Or, alternatively, you want to ride a medium-sized mount into a cramped dungeon.)


If you're still looking at going Warpriest -
The Healing Blessing is a poor blessing if you're planning on using it on yourself.

Powerful Healer (minor): At 1st level, you can add power to a cure spell as you cast it. As a swift action, you can treat any cure spell as if it were empowered (as the Empower Spell feat), causing it to heal 50% more damage (or deal 50% more damage if used against undead). This ability doesn’t stack with itself or the Empower Spell feat.

Fast Healing (major): At 10th level, you can touch an ally and grant it fast healing 3 for 1 minute.

Since it takes a Swift Action to give it the Empowered Spell condition, you can not use it with Fervor to heal yourself. As that would take two swift actions.

I do think your theme fits the Bloodrager better. Just need to role-play the divine aspects.


Matt2VK wrote:
I do think your theme fits the Bloodrager better. Just need to role-play the divine aspects.

Since Bloodragers aren't set by alignment, he could be LG and multiclass paladin for all the swift-LoH benefits of that class.

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