Is Whirling Throw An "Unarmed Attack"?


Rules Discussion

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns Subscriber
core rulebook wrote:


You propel your grabbed or restrained foe a great distance. You can throw the creature any distance up to 10 feet, plus 5 feet × your Strength modifier. If you successfully throw the creature, it takes bludgeoning damage equal to your Strength modifier plus 1d6 per 10 feet you threw it.

Attempt an Athletics check against the foe’s Fortitude DC. You take a –2 circumstance penalty to your check if the target is one size larger than you and a –4 circumstance penalty if it’s larger than that. You gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your check if the target is one size smaller than you and a +4 circumstance bonus if it’s smaller than that.

Critical Success You throw the creature the desired distance and it lands prone.
Success You throw the creature the desired distance.
Failure You don’t throw the creature.
Critical Failure You don’t throw the creature, and it’s no longer grabbed or restrained by you.

So, does this count as an "unarmed attack" to gain the benefits of weapon specialization or mystic strikes? I'm pretty sure it doesn't based on RAW, but I definitely think it's weird if you can't treat the damage as the various monk damage types or add the bonus damage from weapon specialization. I think it's already generally suboptimal compared to striking, so it could use the minor damage buff from these two things.

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Same line of questions for Crushing Grab.

core rulebook wrote:


Like a powerful constrictor, you crush targets in your unyielding grasp. When you successfully Grapple a creature, you can deal bludgeoning damage to that creature equal to your Strength modifier. You can make this attack nonlethal with no penalty


I would say no. Also, the point of these two feats isn't raw damage. It is battlefield control.

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

Well the point of crushing grab is entirely to deal damage. I think it should at least count as the various materials monk can do like cold iron and silver for that piddly damage


zer0darkfire wrote:
Well the point of crushing grab is entirely to deal damage. I think it should at least count as the various materials monk can do like cold iron and silver for that piddly damage

Crushing grab adds a small amount of damage to your grapple. The main purpose of grapple is battlefield control. You don't take Crushing Grab unless you plan to be grappling, ergo controlling the battlefield.

That said, I'd probably allow the cold iron silver stuff myself. Not sure if that's supported by the rules but it makes sense to me. But weapon specialization? Nah. By comparison, the barbarian feat Thrash explicitly gets Weapon Specialization damage, but that's a separate action you have to use, not a free rider on the grapple action.


if they counted as unarmed strikes for any reason, they'd say it explicitly - Pathfinder rules don't function via implication

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns Subscriber
thenobledrake wrote:
if they counted as unarmed strikes for any reason, they'd say it explicitly - Pathfinder rules don't function via implication

Yes, obviously. I'm more concerned that, at the very least, these feats were designed with the assumption that they would work with mystic/metal strikes, but weren't supported that way


What, besides wishful thinking, suggests to you that they would work with those features?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Whirling throw isn't an attack at all. Which is great, because it means you can use it on the same turn that you grapply, with no MAP on your athletics check.


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Can you use Whirling Throw on the Dwarf PC in your party?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I don't see any reason you couldn't. They'd still take the damage, so i dont think you'd want to make a habit of it...

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns Subscriber
HammerJack wrote:
I don't see any reason you couldn't. They'd still take the damage, so i dont think you'd want to make a habit of it...

However, forced movement doesn't provoke reactions from movement, so if your parties barbarian/fighter really wants to move 30ft towards enemies to save an action, it might be worth the damage.


zer0darkfire wrote:
HammerJack wrote:
I don't see any reason you couldn't. They'd still take the damage, so i dont think you'd want to make a habit of it...
However, forced movement doesn't provoke reactions from movement, so if your parties barbarian/fighter really wants to move 30ft towards enemies to save an action, it might be worth the damage.

it would still need 2 acttions for the monk. 1 to grapple and 1 to throw.

not sure that's worth spending 2 actions for 30ft of "movement" to an ally


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Anyone remember the Battle of Helm's Deep? :-)

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