COM: New ability synergies


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Here's some new COM abilities that synergize with others both in COM and previous books to allow interesting combinations. Please post your own.

First post, feats. (The feats are individually great as standalones, BTW, and no one has commented on them much yet..)

Spell Feint feat: Succesful feint instead inflicts -1 to saves against your next spell before the end of your next round. Either combine with Improved Feint to move action feint and cast the spell the same round (not recommended) or with Improved Demoralize feat and a duration enhancer to move action demoralize as you Spell Feint as a standard action, setting up a -3 to saves next round (much stronger if you're patient unless you have great bluff but not intimidate for some reason). Since it doesn't cost Resolve, I'd consider this on a Mindbreaker Mystic (insight bonus to Bluff) who trades out their Sow Thought connection power (standard action for -2 to saves, but RP cost and they get a save) for an epiphany.

And any Mystic can combine Improved Demoralize (move action), Spell Feint (standard), and the Overbearing Stare epiphany (swift) to potentially inflict -4 penalty to a given save against their spell next round (do the skill based ones first, because Overbearing Stare has its own save and will benefit from those landing first). Mindbreakers who trade away Sow Thought to save on RP do it best, with insight bonuses to both Bluff and Intimidate, but any Mystic can become as good by picking up the Expanded Skill Channeling epiphany at 3rd level.

Frightful Display feat: As a reaction, attempt a demoralize against one opponent who failed a save against your spell. Works great with a Technomancer who has the Mental Mark hack and Slow. Cast Slow as your opener, Magic Mark gives a -2 to saves (and AC) for a round against everyone who fails their save, use Frightful Display for a free intimidate against one of them to add on Shaken.

Adaptive Casting feat: Select three spells of a lower level than your max, cast one of them once per day as an SLA. Not only is this a bonus spell, it gives you the flexibility to choose one or two very rarely needed utility spells as an option without hurting your regular spells known. This is where you put Restoration, Reincarnation, or Raise Dead as a Mystic, for example.

Echolocation Attack feat: Combine a sonic weapon with a race that has vibration/sound blindsense to be able to upgrade it to blindsight when necessary. Focused Sense feat does the same thing without the sonic weapon, but reduced range and less duration.

Cookoff and Grenade Mastery feats: Both of these increase the DCs of your grenade, for a total of +3 normally, or +4 if the grenade's item level is below your BAB. Mandatory on Bombardier Soldiers in the future.

Ground Fighting and Living Ladder feats: Ground Fighting eliminates the attack penalty for being prone (and grappled/pinned). Living Ladder gets out out of prone if you hit, but also knocked the opponent prone if you beat their AC by 5. Move action up to an opponent, drop prone as a swift action, attack as a standard action is now a way to semi-reliably drop someone prone. Are there abilities to limit your AC vulnerability to melee attacks while prone in case you completely miss and don't get backup?

Tactful Advisor feat: +1 enhancement if you aid another and roll 20+, combine with any option that boosts Aid Another, like the Instructor archetype in this book or the Expert Advice expertise Talent of an Envoy. (Doing all three of these can result in some crazy high boosts to skills.)

Telepathic Scream and Soothing Telepathy feats: These provide group demoralize and mind affecting defense, respectively, and combo well with the various items (and archetype) that extend your telepathic range. The Psychic Insight feat (Fire Starters AP) would provide a +2 insight bonus to demoralize with Telepathic Scream, but hopefully you have better from another source.


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Mystic melee monster build

1st level: Start with Warmonger connection. You can spend spells to increase your BAB to your Mystic level.

3rd level: Trade your connection power for the Solar Connection epiphany. That's your main weapon.

6th level: Take Power Armor Jockey archetype. Get a bonus armor slot or held weapon (you want the former) for your armor.

9th: Trade your connection power for Secondary Connection ephiphany to pick up either the Devastator or Meliophile 1st level connection power for a +1 morale to attack. Meliophile is stronger and a party buff, but costs RP and an action. Devastator is weaker and only activates on a kill, but no separate action and no RP cost. Or maybe pick up Share Pain from Mind Breaker if you want a defensive reaction.

9th: PAJ archetype reduces your ACP by 1 and boosts your speed.

12th: PAJ gives an extra +1 to your strength bonus in power armor. I'd probably trade out the connection power for something, either a spell/utility booster of drop all the way down to Empowered Healing Touch.

16th: PAJ gives an extra +2 to your strength bonus in power armor.

18th: PAJ gives you an extra +3 to your strength bonus in power armor. You can also soak up HP damage with your armor's HPs by spending no action resolve points.

With 20th level Starguard armor you would have a +13(!!!) strength modifier, +20 BAB when you boost it, and a potential for a +1 morale boost to attacks. Plus your spells for buffing, ranged attacks, or recovery.


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Melee sky swarm!

An entire party with the Jet Charge feat (charge with jump jets or an armor upgrade that gives flight, and charge up to triple the speed granted) plus a Forcepack (60' fly speed), plus an Envoy with Coordinated Charge improvisation can collectively charge the same opponent (spacing and reach permitting) up to 180' on the same initiative count as the first character to do so. As long as anyone in the party wins initiative and charges, the whole party can charge before anyone on the other side reacts.

Makes me think of a party of the Havoc Turian Soldier in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer.


Save debuff party!

In addition to the standard debuffing of saves to help out spellcasters (inflict shaken/sickened, Sow Thought for mindbreaker mystic, Mental Mark for technomancers) COM introduced some new ones.

Biohacker Immunology inhibitor inflicts a -2 penalty to Fort saves.

Biohacker Neurochemistry inhibitor inflicts a -2 penalty to Will saves.

Vanguard Cascade Aspect Finale can inflict a -2 to saves upon a hit and reaction.

Mystic Overbearing Stare epiphany can inflict -1 to a save type chosen daily as a swift action, but itself gives a save.

Rogue Stunt and Strike alternate class feature Set-Up stunt inflicts -2 to saves upon a hit and successful bluff check.

Solarian Ultraviolet Pulse revelation penalizes one or more targets -1 to all saves as a standard action.

Deadly Boast feat as a full round action names a forthcoming action and can inflict a -2 to saves against it on a group, using a Bluff check.

Spell Feint feat as a standard action inflicts -1 penalty on save against your next spell after a successful feint maneuver.

So I see a total of -3 available from feats that any character can take, and lots of classes have a -2 to saves class option. Plus shaken and sickened, it's not that hard to set up a -6 or -8 penalty to saves on one round ahead of having your casters toss out some save or lose spells like Hold Monster or Flesh to Stone. If you spend some time to stack conditions with class abilities and work with things like a Malediction fusion (can inflict -4 to saves via Bestow Curse) you can push a monster into an almost guaranteed failed save.

Witchwarpers might find the Deadly Boast feat particularly useful as a charisma class who can select Bluff for an insight bonus, they can full round debuff an entire group before casting a multitarget spell or AOE.


I'm really hyped about this book, can t wait to see it pop up on AoN! Does 1 level in biohacker still give you INT to will save, perception and sense motive?


SaltMiner wrote:
I'm really hyped about this book, can t wait to see it pop up on AoN! Does 1 level in biohacker still give you INT to will save, perception and sense motive?

Studious (int based) scientific method does still get Int to perception and sense motive. It gets a scaling (from 1 to 4) bonus to will saves instead of a full Int bonus now.


Thanks for the quick answer! Not as good as i hoped, 1 lvl dip for operative is not that good now...


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The Treat Condition line of Biohacker theorems work well with the various armor upgrades from Armory that make you immune to minor conditions and able to reduce major conditions to those minor conditions. So if you (or the whole party) get hit with stunned and reduce it to staggered you can remove that from yourself (and then go treat the others in the party), etc.

Sovereign Court

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Xenocrat wrote:
Echolocation Attack feat: Combine a sonic weapon with a race that has vibration/sound blindsense to be able to upgrade it to blindsight when necessary. Focused Sense feat does the same thing without the sonic weapon, but reduced range and less duration.

There's some competition going on between Echolocation Attack and Focused Sense. I think for people with actual blindsense, Focused Sense may be better.

But for people without blindsense, this feat sets up a neat trick: if you're being bothered by an invisible enemy, throw a screamer grenade anywhere (dealing sonic damage), and then use this feat. Gain blindsense.

---

Another thing that works very well with both Echolocation Attack and Focused Sense is the Blindmark Rifle. It deals sonic damage, and extends the distance at which you can use blindsense/blindsight to follow the creature you just shot.


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The witchwarpers stagger opponent plus the envoys "everyone takes a guarded step" abilities = melee big bads are hoooosed.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
The witchwarpers stagger opponent plus the envoys "everyone takes a guarded step" abilities = melee big bads are hoooosed.

There are also Warmonger mystic connection powers to give a long lasting free guarded step to one or more allies.


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Mentioned this on another thread talking about a specific envoy grappler build, but shirrens qualify not only for the helpful telepath feat listed in their section, but also the spot of luck feat listed in the gnome section (requires a d20 reroll feat or racial ability and 5th level). This allows them to, once per 10 min rest, with a successful harrying fire attempt (trivial at high levels), allow the next ally attack to roll 3 times and take the best result. Particularly useful if you have a grappler who wants to go for broke on trying to pin a target, or a spellcaster casting a big spell that requires an attack roll, such as dominate person or disintegrate.

This also works the same for the other uses of helpful telepath (skill check reroll on aid another, attack reroll and take worse on enemy for covering fire).

This works well for any shirren character using a ranged weapon regardless of class. Envoys taking the fire support or superior covering fire options could potentially do slightly better at high levels since they can harry/cover two targets.


Biohackers can be very good allies for spellcasters to have. Depending on their Field of Study, they can impart a -2 penalty to an enemy's Fortitude or Will saving throws, which is nice for a Mind Thrusting Mystic, a Technomancer fond of casting Disintegrate, or a Witchwarper who wants their enemies to really believe that they can usher in the apocalypse.


Ventnor wrote:
Biohackers can be very good allies for spellcasters to have. Depending on their Field of Study, they can impart a -2 penalty to an enemy's Fortitude or Will saving throws, which is nice for a Mind Thrusting Mystic, a Technomancer fond of casting Disintegrate, or a Witchwarper who wants their enemies to really believe that they can usher in the apocalypse.

There’s also that field of study that inflicts sickened, -2 to all saves plus more.


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Gear that is especially helpful for Biohackers

Explosive Ammo plus Flaming Weapon Fusion: Your injeciton rifle is your highest DPR ranged option, but can't benefit from the genetics inhibitor that inflicts an energy vulnerability. Solution: explosive ammo converts half your damage into fire, and the Flaming fusion converts the other half into fire as well.

Round 1: Standard action Spark of Ingenuity to deliver both a -2 AC and vulnerability to fire, move action engage bipod (see below). Use a reroll ability (see below) if you have one on a miss.

Round 2-3: Full attack at an effective no penalty (between the AC reduction and the bipod) with sedatives for extra nonlethal damage on top of your 150% rifle.

Round 4: Laugh, probably.

Special Material, Explosive, and Phasing Ammunition: Injection expert class ability states:

Quote:
When you fire a weapon with the injection special property and you have multiple types of ammunition loaded into the weapon, you choose which type of ammunition you fire when you attempt the attack.

This is intended for having a mix of serums available, but it also allows you to mix in special ammo types efficiently, only using them when you need rather than having to swap a whole ammo load out when something special comes up.

Of special note is Inubrix ammo, which adds an extra +2 to injection DC if you score a crit, plus acts as low level phasing ammo. It's worth it for shooting at a boss with one of your big, limited DC abilities (like the knockout dart or the damaging superserum) especially if he's in cover.

Weapon Accessories: Your biohacks and medicinals are a precious, limited resource that can be fired twice with a full attack. Make sure you have a scope/sight for the increase to your range increment and a heavy bipod to reduce your full attack penalty by -2. An opening combat round of move action to activate your bipod and a standard action inhibitor shot for the -2 to AC, followed by full attacking with sedatives for bonus damage, is a pretty damn good DPR over the course of three rounds.

A flash suppressor and silencer can reduce your sniping stealth penalty with a needle rifle to -10, and an instinctive biohacker can trick out his stealth score, if that's at thing you want to do.

Potent Weapon Fusion: +1 DC to effects delivered by the weapon. So far this just includes the Pharmacology inhibitor to avoid being entangled, the tranq dart theorem, and the damage option from your level 20 superserum (plus poisons, LOL), but it might grow in the future.

Conserving Weapon Fusion: I think this should give you your biohacks and similar things back on a miss. The only argument I can see against is that biohacks out of your possession ordinarily lose potency, but obviously that can't apply to shooting them or they wouldn't work at all.

Energetic Weapon Fusion: If you have a low magazine injection weapon, this will boost your ammo capacity to 20. This works with the punch guns, taking them from 1 to 20. (It's also why this is banned in SFS.) Caveat: If you're making standard ammo every time you pull the trigger, you lose the benefits of injection expert related to ammo mixing and selection.

Merciful Weapon Fusion: With sedatives to greatly boost your nonlethal damage and the tranq dart theorem to knock people unconscious, it probably makes sense to ensure your base damage doesn't accidentally kill them if you don't want to.

Bombarding Weapon Fusion: You've got grenade proficiency and no other AOE attack options. Worth considering late career if you've got the money and a good grenade.

Reroll Magic/Hybrid Items: You have some make or break shots to make to deliver your limited biohack resources, so rerolls are even more important to you than others. (Even if your conserving fusion saves it, you don't want to lose the action and have to try again if you can avoid it.) The Kaleidoscopic Icosahedron Aeon Stone and the Prescient Lenses are the items that come to mind that can help with an attack roll, there may be others.


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More biohacker thoughts: While they have a very strong incentive to rest to recover biohacks at every opportunity even if they don't have stamina issues, they have zero abilities that directly require resolve points, so they have an enhanced capacity to use equipment that either recharges uses after a 10 minute rest, is fueled by resolve, or both.

The most obvious that comes to mind is the Dragon Gland, which combos well with the genetics inhibitor that inflicts energy vulnerability (full attack into a crowd, hoping to tag 1-2 people, next round move up and breath on them, spend resolve to repeat 1-2 times if prudent). This also fills an AOE attack space that they can otherwise only cover with grenades.

But really most of the limited use augmentations are just a little bit better on a Biohacker compared to all the classes with class abilities that encourage RP use.


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Xenocrat wrote:


The most obvious that comes to mind is the Dragon Gland, which combos well with the genetics inhibitor that inflicts energy vulnerability (full attack into a crowd, hoping to tag 1-2 people, next round move up and breath on them, spend resolve to repeat 1-2 times if prudent). This also fills an AOE attack space that they can otherwise only cover with grenades.

Don't forget dragon gland requires the enemy make a reflex save, which can be reduced through the pharmacology school (encumber, entangled condition) and coagulant medicinals.


That is an interesting point about biohackers not really using their resolve for class features. I sort of noticed that when doing my first read through last night but missed the implication. Makes it a lot more interesting to deck out with various augments that you can recharge with resolve. Which also is pretty thematic of a biohacker that you are heavily into body modification and are effective at using the mods.


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I'm currently exploring an idea combining Armor Storm's 9th level ability, Improved Bull Rush feat, Improved Trip feat, Add Leverage feat, and the Juggernaut Boosters armor upgrade, to make a soldier who does damage with bull rushes at a net +2 to hit vs. CMD as well as pushing enemies back into something and making them prone. Then the soldier use a reaction to punch them again when they try to stand up with the Beatdown gear boost.

There's some other stuff that supports the style (Slam Down feat with Knockdown crit weapons, etc) but they aren't explicitly part of the combo.


The 8th level Technomancer Drone Summoner magic hack combos with the Holographic Artists Cache alternate class feature. You summon a permanent robot as your Summon Monster option, and attach some extra features to it for utility purposes.

Drone Summoner magic hack wrote:
The benefits you can select from include bonus feats and drone mods. The bonus feats you can select from are Blind-Fight, Cleave, Far Shot, Jet Dash, Kip Up, and Mobility. The drone mods you can select from are camera, cargo rack, climbing claws, enhanced senses, hardened AI, hydrojets, jump jets, speed, and tool arm (you must define the tool when you select this benefit).

The permanent summons are useless at their level for combat, you're after utility like the camera, cargo rack (carry gear for you), tool arm, or maybe movement enhancers.

The drone's camera mod ordinarily assumes you have a mechanic's custom rig to see the feed, I assume you're supposed to be able to do this through your cache or the telepathic link it also gives you. If so, camera plus enhanced senses (darkvision) makes it a perfect scout you can send ahead and that you can recreate with 5 minutes concentration every time it's destroyed.

As far as the expected use of Drone Summoner to enhance a combat robot summon, there's not a lot to love here but I guess Cleave, Far Shot, and Blind-Fight have their uses in addition to the mobility enhancers. I'm not planning to have it run or get knocked prone a lot...

I'd only take this hack if I had the cache and a deal with my GM over the utility of the resurrectable scout being useful.


The Technomancer cache augmentation alternate class feature can give a +1/2/3 enhancement bonus to computers and engineering skills at levels 6/12/18, pushing the techno above engineers for the best possible skill bonuses and equal to engineers at engineering if you invest in skill focus. With the Charging Jolt (CRB) hack added on they can hit sillier disable device bonuses against powered devices than ever before. With Identify and Suppress Countermeasures spells they've got really solid magical support for hacking as well.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I wouldn't call the permanent summons "useless". Yes, they will be much lower level. . . but note that you can refresh them with a single round of effort. This basically means "you have a weak summon in every fight". It may be a small amount of help, but it can do stuff like obstruct attacks, threaten for AoOs, use covering/harrying fire, etc. And even if the enemy one-shots it, that is one action they spent *not* doing something else more useful.


Metaphysician wrote:
I wouldn't call the permanent summons "useless". Yes, they will be much lower level. . . but note that you can refresh them with a single round of effort.

It takes 5 minutes to refresh a permanent spell (and the summons are permanent, not at will) in a spell cache. You also have the same summon all day, you can't customize or change them for each fight.


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Biohacks combine with other injectable solutions?

Biohacks wrote:
You can deliver any biohack you create with any attack from an injection weapon.

As written, only common sense imposes a requirement that the injection shot be empty, so until we get some clarification or your GM crushes you a biohack can be combined with a serum, poison, or medicinal shot.

This raises several questions: If a poison and a save suppressing biohack hit at the same time, what is the order of operations? If you combine a biohack (auto hit) with a serum can you still auto hit without rolling an attack roll on your attuned allies within range of your microlab?

I don't think this is supposed to work, so I won't bother talking about best combos, but if you think you can get away with it go nuts.


@Xenocrat

I don't think common sense comes into play here. If it did the basic operation of a biohack is nearly physically impossible in 6 seconds.

If a poison and a save suppressing biohack hit at the same time you save with the penalty.

If you combine serum (any attack) with a biohack on an attuned ally then then yes you hit automatically.

Its not a matter of getting away with anything, it is how the rule is written.

Always keep in mind if the PCs can do it so can their enemies. So there is no advantage or disadvantage to either side.


Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

@Xenocrat

I don't think common sense comes into play here. If it did the basic operation of a biohack is nearly physically impossible in 6 seconds.

If a poison and a save suppressing biohack hit at the same time you save with the penalty.

If you combine serum (any attack) with a biohack on an attuned ally then then yes you hit automatically.

Its not a matter of getting away with anything, it is how the rule is written.

Always keep in mind if the PCs can do it so can their enemies. So there is no advantage or disadvantage to either side.

It's a matter of intraclass balance, not PC vs NPC. If every heavy weapon does 150 points of damage that's a problem even through NPCs can also use heavy weapons. (I'm not saying that this is as potentially unbalanced as that.) Conceptually I think a biohack is supposed to be a similar volume of fluid as a serum, poison, or medicinal, so it can't all fit. But maybe it's a tiny amount you add to an empty vial or to modify an existing solution. Maybe.

As far the impossibility of biohacks and loading this stuff that quickly, I assume the same magic that fuels big HP totals and violations of the square cube law allows biohackers to tap into latent magic that fuels their combination of real super science and knowledge to achieve the absurd.

Edit: After seeing that medication mastery theorem explicitly tells you that you can't mix your free medicinals from that ability with biohacks, I'm now pretty strongly of the opinion that you can normally mix them with purchased poisons, serums, and medicinals. Which honestly I guess is balanced just fine given how expensive some of those effects are.


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Xenocrat wrote:


It's a matter of intraclass balance, not PC vs NPC. If every heavy weapon does 150 points of damage that's a problem even through NPCs can also use heavy weapons. Conceptually I think a biohack is supposed to be a similar volume of fluid as a serum, poison, or medicinal, so it can't all fit. But maybe it's a tiny amount you add to an empty vial or to modify an existing solution. Maybe.

As far the impossibility of biohacks and loading this stuff that quickly, I assume the same magic that fuels big HP totals and violations of the square cube law allows biohackers to tap into latent magic that fuels their combination of real super science and knowledge to achieve the absurd.

You post above specifically mentions common sense

Xenocrat wrote:
As written, only common sense imposes a requirement.....

I am pointing that there is a lack of common sense to a lot of what is in the game. You also assume correctly that there are magic properties that govern a bunch of activities including the biohacker's biohack.

Also look at the biohack description again.

Biohack wrote:


You can deliver any biohack you create with any attack from an injection weapon. You must declare prior to the attack roll that you are using a biohack and specify which effect you are using, but you select and apply the biohack as part of the action used to make the attack.

Note is says apply the biohack, not load, not fill, not etc....

It is a quasi magical effect as you state.

It is written so that they can be combined.

And it does not make the Biohacker over powered.


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I agree, thanks for bringing this to my attention. It really makes serums and poisons a lot more viable, as well as the basic boosters that I would have had a hard time justifying over an inhibitor in combat. But if I'm shooting them with a serum anyway, why not give them an AC or speed boost.


You are more than welcome. Glad to help.

Exactly the same thought I had. Here have some healing and a +1 to AC.


At level 3, Operatives who forgo their quick movement class feature can make Trick Attacks as a Standard Action. This is obviously pretty cool, but it does come with limitations that basically mean you can't make any other attacks during that turn. So, with our move action freed up, what can we do? If only there were some pieces of equipment that you could use as a move action to boost your defense!

... In case my sarcasm didn't come through, I'm basically saying that Operatives can be pretty effective shield wielders.


Ventnor wrote:

At level 3, Operatives who forgo their quick movement class feature can make Trick Attacks as a Standard Action. This is obviously pretty cool, but it does come with limitations that basically mean you can't make any other attacks during that turn. So, with our move action freed up, what can we do? If only there were some pieces of equipment that you could use as a move action to boost your defense!

... In case my sarcasm didn't come through, I'm basically saying that Operatives can be pretty effective shield wielders.

Improved Demoralize uber alles.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That is definitely a way to benefit, especially if you have a cruel weapon.

Greater feint also jumps out, so that you can one of your other debilitating options, while still leaving the target flat-footed.

Additionally, trick attacking on round 1, regardless of the circumstances the combat started from ia a significant benefit.


A stunt and strike Operative can at 7th level try to combine Set-Up (Bluff; -2 to saves) and Dirty Trick (Computers; pick shaken or sickened) to inflict a total of -4 to saves for the next round on a target.


Combos available to a given spell slot level of Infinite Worlds:

2nd Level Slot

Save or be Dazzled and difficult terrain.

3rd Level Slot

Six points of damage every round (if you can apply the same thing twice) for area/cover denial.

Save for prone plus difficult terrain.

Save for prone or difficult terrain plus 3 points of damage per round to those staying in the zone.

4th Level Slot

Save or off-target and save or dazzled for a potential -3 to attack for rounds/CL.

Grant concealment against two senses (if you can apply the same thing twice) for stealthing against things with both sight and blindsight.

5th Level Slot

Create a barrier and concealment against sight, to provide both cover and concealment against enemies.

Create a barrier to wall in enemies plus 5 points of damage every round.

Create a barrier to wall off or separate enemies plus 10d6 damage of your choice.

Do a 20d6 burst of damage (if you can apply the same thing twice).

6th Level Slot

Save or be sickened and save or be entangled/anchored.

Save or be entangled/anchored and 6 points of damage every round.

Save or be entangled/anchored and 12d6 damage burst.

Save or be sickened and 12d6 damage burst.

Double saves or be entangled/anchored.

Do a 24d6 burst of damage (if you can apply the same thing twice).

Note: I don't think you can apply the same thing twice by intent, but the rule doesn't currently exclude it explicitly. Expect to be crushed by non-crazy GMs if you try it, though.


The second level damage option on the infinite worlds kinda hurts my brain. It does 1 damage per level of spell slot used and you can save for half damage. I just can't see burning a spell slot for that effect.

Honestly doubling up damage on a lot of those powers seems to more bring them to the correct level of damage for that spell than just allowing it once. At low levels other than the difficult terrain a lot of the options just are so lacking as to question why anybody would burn a spell slot on them.


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kaid wrote:

The second level damage option on the infinite worlds kinda hurts my brain. It does 1 damage per level of spell slot used and you can save for half damage. I just can't see burning a spell slot for that effect.

Honestly doubling up damage on a lot of those powers seems to more bring them to the correct level of damage for that spell than just allowing it once. At low levels other than the difficult terrain a lot of the options just are so lacking as to question why anybody would burn a spell slot on them.

The damage/round option is definitely one of the worst, I'd personally just stay put in my cover and take the damage, but it might work to force movement on me/enemies some times.

I totally disagree that the double damage instantaneous effect on 5th/6th level slots brings them to a correct damage level. They're way more damaging than any other spell options at that point and with total damage type flexibility.

As far as low level effects I think the 2nd level knock prone effect is fine as an AOE to debuff enemies against party melee, and the 3rd level off-target is ok.

It's a bunch of situational free spells known. If they were all great all the time you'd rely on them too much, but as is you can let them fill in for some debuff/damage/control options while your spell known are invested at the margin in other options like defense, mind control, or utility.


Ultimate Wallhacker Technomancer

1. See through walls: Aeon Eye or Artificial Third Eye by preference, as the X-ray visor and serum only penetrate 1/5 as much matter.

2. Travel through walls: COM's Glitch Step magic hack lets you spend a spell slot to walk through walls or doors as part of a move action, and its Translocational Recall lets you establish a beacon you can travel back to as a swift action. Establish a beacon, next round Glitch Step through the wall move action, cast/shoot standard action, teleport back through the wall as a swift action.

3. Shoot through walls: phase rounds (only up to limited hardness) from Armory, and the Phase Shot magic hack give you this option if you'd prefer not to go through the wall yourself.


The medic ability to restore staminia + the epiphany to use healing touch with resolve points as a standard action....


BigNorseWolf wrote:
The medic ability to restore staminia + the epiphany to use healing touch with resolve points as a standard action....

Or grab the 1st level healing connection power with your third level.


Power Armor wearing Technomancers can ride a summoned Phantom Cycle (level 3 spell, level/hour duration, speed of 20+(CL-6)x5 for enhanced speed and use a mounted hands free weapon in their PA to make ranged attacks.

At CL 12, you'd have a speed of 50' per move action and as a full action you could move 800' to break contact. At CL 16 it's 70' and 1000'. Put those Piloting ranks to use, maybe with a sniper buddy riding as a passenger.

(It's reeeeeally easy to shoot and destroy, though, so maybe make it invisible or something.)


The 5th level instantaneous Infinite Worlds ability to entangle and fix in place matches up very nicely with the 6th level Unspeakable Presences spell. Use Infinite Worlds to lock foes down in a square for spell level rounds, then cast Unspeakable Presences, which turns into a save or die after rounds 3+ of being unable to move out of the area.

A 5th level infinite worlds would therefore inflict 2 save or dies, a 6th level 3 save or dies, assuming you lead with the entangle and use Unspeakable Presences second. The other way is riskier (they might escape their first round) but a higher pay off if you need an extra round of pinning them in place to stack up those saves.

Note that while Unspeakable Presences can be dispelled, Infinite Worlds cannot be, because it's a Su (and in this particular example an instantaneous effect with a duration). And Starfinder has no way to escape the entangled condition unless the method of inflicting it provides one (Infinite Worlds does not), so teleportation is your only hope of escape from this sort of pinning to one spot. That sort of mobility lockdown is useful to a lot more things than just the Unspeakable Presences spell.

The entangle and shapeable barrier effects of Infinite Worlds are the two potentially great options out of the lackluster bulk.


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That's not a Kasatha, that's Two Ysoki Under A Coat! You need two melee PCs, at least one of whom must be a Ysoki with the Swarmer alternate race feature and at least one of whom must have the Scurry feat. They can occupy the same space and count as flanking anyone who enters their threatened area. Still works if one of the characters is a Ysoki with both of the listed requirements and the other character is any other melee character.
You don't actually need the Scurry feat since it isn't necessary to occupy the same space to use Swarmer, it's just more fun that way.

You can combine the Scurry feat with the level 6 feature of the Street Rat theme to squeeze through spaces one eighth the size of your normal space (7.5 inches?) without the usual penalties for squeezing, but when is that going to come up.


Xenocrat wrote:
And Starfinder has no way to escape the entangled condition unless the method of inflicting it provides one (Infinite Worlds does not), so teleportation is your only hope of escape from this sort of pinning to one spot.

Wait, what?


Pantshandshake wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
And Starfinder has no way to escape the entangled condition unless the method of inflicting it provides one (Infinite Worlds does not), so teleportation is your only hope of escape from this sort of pinning to one spot.
Wait, what?

Neither the entangled condition nor the escape use of Acrobatics skill (grapples, pins, and restraints only) provide any generally applicable method to end the entangled condition in Starfinder. Lots of entangle methods provide a specific method and DC to escape them for that particular entangling effect, but some (like that cryo blast weapon in Armory, the Shadow Tendrils spell, the biohacker pharmacology field of study inhibitor, and Infinite Worlds) do not. So some entangling effects cannot be escaped without a houserule.

It's not a huge problem for most, since the penalties suck but are manageable in a largely ranged game (and you still have half movement), but total movement negation with no way to escape in the Infinite Worlds version is unique as far as I can remember, since that one fixes you to the floor. It has a relatively short duration (5-6 rounds), but that's more than enough on a class who has many, many ways to set up a persistent AOE effect dealing ongoing damage or save or die/lose effects.


Xenocrat wrote:


Neither the entangled condition nor the escape use of Acrobatics skill (grapples, pins, and restraints only) provide any generally applicable method to end the entangled condition in Starfinder. Lots of entangle methods provide a specific method and DC to escape them for that particular entangling effect, but some (like that cryo blast weapon in Armory, the Shadow Tendrils spell, the biohacker pharmacology field of study inhibitor, and Infinite Worlds) do not. So some entangling effects cannot be escaped without a houserule.

I'd argue that we know how to escape Entangle when it has been inflicted by a weapon, but the lack of a general "Here's how DCs to get out of effects caused by spells work" in some book, somewhere, really surprises me.

Well, good on you, Witchwarper friends. Lord knows I love trapping something in an AoE in dozens of games.


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Pantshandshake wrote:


I'd argue that we know how to escape Entangle when it has been inflicted by a weapon

Ah, you're right, I missed the language in the entangle weapon special property.

Entangle weapon property wrote:
A creature hit by an entangle weapon becomes entangled until it escapes with an Acrobatics check (DC = 10 + weapon’s item level + the attacker’s Dexterity modifier) or a Strength check (DC = 15 + weapon’s item level + the attacker’s Dexterity modifier). An entangled creature can attempt such a check as a move action.

I don't see a way to houserule this into some generally applicable DC for the Shadow Tendrils spell or Infinite Worlds. The xenodruid's Grasping Vines has both an initial save based on class DC but then just a flat 15 DC for both strength and acrobatics checks to escape, which doesn't match the weapon property scheme for two reasons: it doesn't scale, and it doesn't have different DCs for one method over the other.


Unspeakable Presences does allow for a Reflex Save at the end an effected creatures turn. It is in the description text.

I cannot find the Shadow Tendrils spell in the AoN spell list.

I did find Umbral Tendrils, and that too allows a save to avoid being entangled. What is less clear is if you are entangled by this spell and then save do you lose the entangled condition?

Looking at Infinite Worlds also has a method for saving throws. DC 10 + Spell Level expended plus CHA modifier.


Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Unspeakable Presences does allow for a Reflex Save at the end an effected creatures turn. It is in the description text.

I know that. The issue is that you ONLY get the one saving throw for Infinite Worlds, you have no way to escape if you fail that (except teleportation), and it pins you to a specific square. So you then follow that up with Unspeakable Presences, and your saves against that don't matter, because the Infinite Worlds failure has already doomed you to be unable to leave.


Xenocrat wrote:
Hawk Kriegsman wrote:

Unspeakable Presences does allow for a Reflex Save at the end an effected creatures turn. It is in the description text.

I know that. The issue is that you ONLY get the one saving throw for Infinite Worlds, you have no way to escape if you fail that (except teleportation), and it pins you to a specific square. So you then follow that up with Unspeakable Presences, and your saves against that don't matter, because the Infinite Worlds failure has already doomed you to be unable to leave.

I see that. Yikes.

However your scenario is dealing with 16th level casters, so the PCs and creatures will all have potentially really good ways to kill each other.

Better have plenty of teleport and dispel magic available (for Unspeakable Presence).


As piercing weapons, the syringe stick (basic) and needler estoc (advanced) make excellent bayonet options using the bayonet bracket from Armory. At higher levels the needler estoc has enough damage that I think even attacking KAC it probably beats the DPR of energy options handily.

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