Rune Transfer Costs


Rules Discussion

Shadow Lodge

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My rogue is about to hit level 5 and I'm considering an investment in Crafting:

  • Use one of my 5th level stat boosts to increase my Int from 10 to 12
  • Take 'Crafting' as my additional trained skill from my Intelligence bonus
  • Upgrade 'Crafting' to Expert with my level 5 skill upgrade, and
  • Take Assurance(Crafting) as my level 5 skill feat.

This should give me an automatic 19 on crafting checks, which should be enough for level 4 items. This is significant because the party has a number of Level 4 Striking Runes we're going to want to transfer.

Transferring Runes

Transferring Runes wrote:
The DC of the Crafting check to transfer a rune is determined by the item level of the rune being transferred, and the Price of the transfer is 10% of the rune’s Price, unless transferring from a runestone, which is free. If you’re swapping, use the higher level and higher Price between the two runes to determine these values. It takes 1 day (instead of the 4 days usually needed to Craft) to transfer a rune or swap a pair of runes, and you can continue to work over additional days to get a discount, as usual with Craft.

Our Striking Runes are 65g each, so the transfer price should be 6.5g and the base time to complete is 1 day, and I can work for additional days to reduce the cost. So far, seems simple enough.

Trained Action: Craft
Trained Action: Craft wrote:

You must supply raw materials worth at least half the item’s Price. You always expend at least that amount of raw materials when you Craft successfully. If you’re in a settlement, you can usually spend currency to get the amount of raw materials you need, except in the case of rarer precious materials.

...
If your attempt to create the item is successful, you expend the raw materials you supplied. You can pay the remaining portion of the item’s Price in materials to complete the item immediately, or you can spend additional downtime days working on it. For each additional day you spend, reduce the value of the materials you need to expend to complete the item. This amount is determined using Table 4–2: Income Earned (page 236), based on your proficiency rank in Crafting and using your own level instead of a task level. After any of these downtime days, you can complete the item by spending the remaining portion of its Price in materials.

So, do I have the following correct?

If I want to transfer a rune, I need to spend 50% of the Transfer Price or 3.25g of materials right away.
Once I make my (hopefully automatic) check, I can either:
  • a) Spend the remaining amount of the Price, or
  • b) Spend another day crafting to reduce the remaining amount by 1g (based on being a level 5 expert).

Financially, my options are:

  • One day of work and 6.5g,
  • Two days of work and 5.5g,
  • Three days of work and 4.5g, or
  • Four days of work and 3.25g.


Looks correct to me


thenobledrake wrote:
Looks correct to me

Does the transfer of magical rune stones not require the Magical Crafting feat as well? You are using the capital Craft action to transfer and the feat allows you to Craft magic items. Thoughts?


It's a craft function related to magical items and doesn't say it doesn't require the magical crafting feat, so I'd say it does have that requirement - rules needing explicit and specific exceptions to act differently than the general case, and all that.


Zalerian wrote:
Does the transfer of magical rune stones not require the Magical Crafting feat as well? You are using the capital Craft action to transfer and the feat allows you to Craft magic items. Thoughts?

I think you're correct. You can't make a magical item without the requisite feat. A runic item is a magical item. I don't think it's explicitly spelled out anywhere, but it follows that Runic items have the magical tag and thus you need the feat to make or transfer a rune.

Shadow Lodge

Aservan wrote:
Zalerian wrote:
Does the transfer of magical rune stones not require the Magical Crafting feat as well? You are using the capital Craft action to transfer and the feat allows you to Craft magic items. Thoughts?
I think you're correct. You can't make a magical item without the requisite feat. A runic item is a magical item. I don't think it's explicitly spelled out anywhere, but it follows that Runic items have the magical tag and thus you need the feat to make or transfer a rune.

While 'creating magic items requires the Magical Crafting feat' you are not actually creating anything: You are just moving a rune that someone else made from one item to another.

At least, that's how I read it...


My group is about to start doing this, I did not think they needed magical crafting to transfer runes upon reading the process. I hope there is clarification soonish.

K-ray


"Transferring Runes" is in the orange colored sub-section color and size font style, which means it's not a separate entity from the preceding section "The Etching Process."

Just like how each ancestry entry has a section titled "Names" and within that section is "Sample Names" which is a piece of that, rather than it's own independent section. Formatting provides context.

Also, all of this is found within the section of rules that is given the big blue title of "Runes" which are a magical thing and so require the magical crafting feat to do things with - and by context of the formatting, all the specifics of how to use the Craft activity relating to runes therein, are the same and require the magical crafting feat since they don't specify that they are an exception to that rule.

Shadow Lodge

thenobledrake wrote:

"Transferring Runes" is in the orange colored sub-section color and size font style, which means it's not a separate entity from the preceding section "The Etching Process."

Just like how each ancestry entry has a section titled "Names" and within that section is "Sample Names" which is a piece of that, rather than it's own independent section. Formatting provides context.

Also, all of this is found within the section of rules that is given the big blue title of "Runes" which are a magical thing and so require the magical crafting feat to do things with - and by context of the formatting, all the specifics of how to use the Craft activity relating to runes therein, are the same and require the magical crafting feat since they don't specify that they are an exception to that rule.

The 'Runes' section makes no mention of needing the feat: That requirement is buried 45 pages away and is rather specific.
Craft Requirements (p535) wrote:
...creating magic items requires the Magical Crafting feat...

Personally, I don't see the need for a feat tax on something relatively simple like this...


I don't see an explicit rule for it, so I think you're well within your rights to not require it. Literally moving an etched rune from one object to another seems like a magic process to me (either somehow physically removing the rune through magic or transferring the magical "essense" from one etching to another) so I would require it. But YMMV.


Sorry for the stir up on the topic. I only mentioned it because of the chain of rules that I interpreted to require it. From my reading of the rules, I had put together the following logic.

As people have pointed out, neither the etching section nor the transferring rune subsection mentioned the magical crafting feat where as the Alchemical and Snares sections point to their individual feats.

The second sentence under the “Transferring Runes” does say this requires the Craft activity, because I believe you’re etching the rune on a new weapon/armor/runestone while rubbing out the old etching on the other item.

The second sentence of the Craft activity under the Crafting skill says “You need ... the Magical Crafting skill feat to create magical items....”.

Page 535 Notable Item Traits
“Magical: Items with this trait are imbued with magical energies. ...A character can craft these items only if she has the Magical Crafting feat (page 263).” Everything involved in this process has the Magical trait, including the new +x striking Magic Weapon.

I interpreted all the above that in order to use the Craft activity to create a new magical item by transferring a magical rune to either a new weapon or runestone would require the feat.

Clear as mud...


Transferring a rune is transferring a rune whether you are taking a +1 potency rune from a weapon you don't want to use and putting it on a non-magical weapon you do want to use, thus creating a +1 whatever-that-weapon-is, or if you are transferring a property rune from a +1 something to a +2 striking something else.

So the question becomes this: Does it require the magical crafting feat to transfer a rune to a non-magical weapon, but not to transfer a rune to an already magical weapon?

Because "creating" doesn't have such limited definition as to not apply in the case of making something new out of something that already exists.

And again, I point to the specific trumps general rules style: generally you can't use Craft in any way that results in an item gaining magical properties - you are specifically enabled to do that by the Magical Crafting feat, and there aren't any more-specific exceptions to that.


The funny thing about Alchemical item and Snares section mentioning their related crafting feats while the various sections of magical item types don't: Those are just friendly, redundant reminders.

...and yet, as is very commonly the case, something having a friendly, redundant, reminder while something else doesn't gets people confused into thinking there is meant to be a deliberate difference.

never mind that the requirement to have the Magical Crafting feat in order to make magic items is mentioned: in the Craft activity, in the Magical Crafting feat, in the description of the Magical trait, and under "Craft Requirements" on page 535 of the book. It's not also listed another 8 times at the start of each section of types of magic items so it's "unclear."

Sczarni

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It's like when people were claiming ammunition wasn't consumable, because the text clarifying that ammunition was consumable existed outside of the equipment chapter. Then the errata clarified that, no really, ammunition is consumable.

The idea behind this iteration of the Core Rulebook is that Ctrl+F is a thing, and redundancies can be limited to save on page count.

I also believe that transferring runes requires some level of crafting, which since they are magical, requires an ability to craft magical items (such as the Magical Crafting feat or some other to-be-published ability).


Nefreet wrote:
It's like when people were claiming ammunition wasn't consumable, because the text clarifying that ammunition was consumable existed outside of the equipment chapter. Then the errata clarified that, no really, ammunition is consumable.

That at least had the difference of being confusing because of reading order, since pre-errata the earliest mention of ammunition in the book didn't say it was consumed on use giving reason to believe the later mention was a specific rule rather than a general one.

The requirement in question here is actually mentioned in the earliest relevant place though.

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