Steal combat manuver


Advice


What are some ways of really improving this maneuver to absurdity?


I made an attempt at it. There may be feats and/or magic items I've missed. There is probably a way for a monk to get the adhesive property (for another +2), but it is a magic armor property and they aren't allowed to wear armor.

Flurrying Thief (Monk)

Spoiler:

Key concepts: A character focused on the steal maneuver
Trait: Pillager
Race: Tiefling
Racial Trait: Bully
Class: Monk(11)
Archetypes: Maneuver Master
Feats: Agile Maneuvers(1st), Quick Draw(3rd), Grasping Tail(5th), Mischievous Tail (7th), Graceful Steal(9th), Quick Stow(11th)
Bonus Feats: Imp. Steal(1st), Combat Reflexes(2nd), G. Steal(6th), Quick Steal(10th)
Gear: Gauntlets of the skilled maneuver (steal), Bag of Concealment
Key Features: Assuming Base Dex = 20 and Base Wis = 20
Total bonus: 11 (monk) + 5(dex) +5(wis) +1 (trait) +2 (Imp. Steal) +2 (G. Steal) +1 (Bully) +2 (Mis. Tail) +2 (gauntlets) = +31
Combat: Can make 2 steal attempts at +29 and a 3rd at +26 and 1 normal attack. Items can be stolen even if hidden in bags (at a -5 penalty). The theft of any items you steal goes completely un-noticed unless the creature attempts to use said item or the combat ends whichever happens 1st. Items stolen can be put into your bag of concealment as part of the steal action, which makes the items inaccessible to anyone but yourself (your bag looks empty if anyone else checks it).

edit: The above build assumes that Quick Steal qualifies as a "maneuver strike feat". If it doesn't, then you'll have to grab dirty fighting or combat expertise in order to qualify for it.


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Action Economy is improved by Quick Steal and class features such as Flurry of Maneuvers or the Skulking Slayer's Underhanded Maneuvers. The real problem is finding use for the maneuver when you face enemies that have nothing to lose. Players may get crippled if you take their Amulet, Cloak, Component Pouch, or Bag of Holding, but a dragon doesn't have the same issue.

If you want to make the CMB check easier, there are a couple of ways to use Sleight of Hand:
Filcher Rogue can use their Sleight of Hand bonus in place of their Steal CMB starting at level 4, and the Prankster Bard can do something similar at lv 1. Cutpurse Rogue is especially curious since it allows you to use the DC 20 Sleight of Hand check during combat, completely negating the need for the Steal combat maneuver.

Ranged 'Steal':
Cutpurse Rogue 10 / Wizard 1

Traits:
Magical Knack, Wayang Spellhunter (Mage Hand)

Feats:
Reach Spell, Equipment Trick (Thieves' Tools), Skill Focus (Sleight of Hand), +3 undecided

Rogue Talents:
Stalker Talent-> Sniper, +4 undecided

Gimmick:
Can make an attack and a Sleight of Hand DC 20 check to steal as a full-round action during combat. Can be used in melee, or from up to 130 ft away using Mage Hand and a ranged weapon. Assuming you've spent 5,400 GP on the Masterful Gray Gloves and got your Dex mod to +6, your skill bonus should be +38 which allows you to automatically succeed at any distance shorter than 100 ft.

14 (skill+class) +10 (gloves) +6 (dex) +6 (Feat) +2 (MWK tool)
= +38 (-1 per 5 ft away to the target)

***


If you're going the Sleight of hand route. The feat Swipe and Stash might be useful against enemies that have "nothing to lose" assuming there's something useful you could plant on them. (eg. a bunch of incendiary and/or explosive runes)


There is already a spell for this: Pilfering Hand


Oh hey, looks like the Magic Trick feat doesn't include the scaling penalty clause of the Equipment Trick or the range limitation of the Arcane Trickster class feature. 440 ft away during combat may be overkill, but it requires the same amount of feats so might as well.

Magic Trick: Mage Hand wrote:
Subtle Hand (Deft Hands, Disable Device 6 ranks, Sleight of Hand 6 ranks): You can attempt Disable Device and Sleight of Hand checks within range of your mage hand. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and you cannot take 10 on this check.

Ranged 'Steal', Updated:
Cutpurse Rogue 10 / Wizard 1

Traits:
Magical Lineage (Mage Hand), Wayang Spellhunter (Mage Hand)

Feats:
Reach Spell, Magic Trick (Mage Hand), Deft Hands, +3 undecided

Rogue Talents:
Stalker Talent-> Sniper, +4 undecided

Gimmick:
Can make an attack and a Sleight of Hand DC 20 check to steal as a full-round action during combat. Can be used in melee, or from up to 440 ft away using Mage Hand and a ranged weapon.

Sleight of Hand:
14 (skill+class) +10 (Masterful Gray Gloves) +6 (dex) +4 (Feat) +2 (MWK tool) -5 (Magic Trick)
= +31

***

====

@Thedmstrikes

The point of using Mage Hand is that you can keep it up all day long as it is a cantrip. Pilfering Hand would work once per cast, while Mage Hand is up as long as you concentrate. And you normally can't use Sleight of Hand during combat at all so the Steal CMD would be hard to beat after a while.


Yeah in the game I'm working on a character for we've got Spheres of Power, so there are somethings with steal combat maneuver that can be really nice, but gotta work on the base up.

Masterful Gray Gloves might be nice for when I can make normal sleight of hand checks. Especially when combined with the Quick Escape Talent and A Decoy ring. I didn't realize that the cutpurse works almost like the halfling filcher archtype that gets to make a sleight of hand check in place of the steal combat maneuver.


Darche Schneider wrote:
I didn't realize that the cutpurse works almost like the halfling filcher archtype that gets to make a sleight of hand check in place of the steal combat maneuver.

It's unique in the way that you actually make a Sleight of Hand check instead of just replacing your CMB with the SoH bonus.

While a Filcher Rogue has to beat the CMD of their enemy, the Cutpurse does not. So even if you face off against a CR 22 Thanatotic Titan it's still a DC 20 Sleight of Hand check to succeed even though its CMD is 60.

Although you must still hit with a sneak attack, the 'stealing' is guaranteed. Which makes it a really good archetype since you don't have to invest any additional resources to be great at in-combat theft.

Darche Schneider wrote:
Yeah in the game I'm working on a character for we've got Spheres of Power, so there are somethings with steal combat maneuver that can be really nice, but gotta work on the base up.

So you basically want the least intrusive options available so that you can make a build using the Spheres of Power classes, right? In that case I'd recommend dipping one level of Prankster Bard for the Swap ability, and then spending three feats on Quick Steal if you want to make it your main combat gimmick.

Prankster Bard: Swap wrote:
A prankster can steal an object from a creature and replace it with another object of the same size or smaller that the prankster has in his hand. This functions as the steal combat maneuver, but the prankster does not provoke an attack of opportunity, and may use his Sleight of Hand check in place of his combat maneuver check. If the prankster’s check exceeds the target’s CMD by 10 or more, the target is unaware the swap has been made until it tries to use the swapped object or the end of its next turn (whichever happens first). This ability replaces lore master.

This would allow you to use your Sleight of Hand bonus in place of your CMB, still counts as a Steal maneuver for other abilities, and can be used with the Magic Trick (Mage Hand) ability to make Steal combat maneuvers at long range if you can afford to invest three additional feats. Just carry a quiver filled with tiny bolts/arrows, since they're a free action to draw, and replace your opponent's possessions with them.


On a side note. While it's not stated in the text, the accompanying table for sleight of hand suggests that you can only take small items from someone with a DC 20 check. So, at the very least you probably want to run things by your DM first to make sure sleight of hand can be used in the way you intend to use it.

Edit: I'm not sure if the rogue archetypes above work with unchained rogue or not. But if they do, then you don't even need to take level dip in wizard. You can grab the rogue talent minor magic to be able to cast mage hand as a spell like ability at will.

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