Spirit Whisperer Wizard in PBP


Rules Questions


Ok, this thread is because I am putting together a character for a PBP campaign, and due to the archetype chosen (and associated lack of FAQ’a for the material), there are potential Q’s about how things work…

I have been interpreting the RAW in ways that seem to make RAI to me, and I am going to explain them here, and let others comment. I will also be linking this thread to the PBP recruitment thread so the GM can see & agree/disagree on how I am doing things… (I am doing this here for a) more exposure to POV's, and b) so it doesn't clutter up his recruitment thread).

The central rules element is the Spirit Whisperer wizard archetype , and it’s interaction with assorted feats and so forth…

1) I am currently working on the basis that the Spirit Hex feature qualifies as having the Hex class feature for access to feats and so on. The basis for this is the comment from Sean K Reynolds, here:

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ln8z?Can-a-Life-Oracle-with-Channeling-take#3 0

Which isn’t an official ruling…

This implies that the wizard can take feat like Accursed Hex. which requires the Hex class feature. He can’t take things like Spirit Talker which require witch or shaman levels (that would also apply to Split Hex, which requires Witch 10). In particular, he can take Ritual Hex.

2) I think that a Spirit Whisperer Wizard can take normal shaman hexes in the general case, “a spirit whisperer can select one hex from the list of those granted by his chosen spirit.” This is because the basic shaman class makes it clear that the hexes it has are granted by the spirit the shaman chose at lvl 1, and they can select general hexes as well as spirit specific hexes Thus, the generic hexes are grantable by any spirit. This is further supported by the unsworn shaman archetype, who makes temporary deals with varying spirits. At first level, the Unsworn makes a deal with an unspecified minor spirit and can select any witch or shaman hex. At second level, she upgrades to a specified wandering spirit and can select their hex every day from both the particular spirit’s list and the general shaman & witch list ofs hexes.

This has been argued for many different POV’s, and there is no FAQ.

3) As mentioned, Ritual Hex becomes an issue. Given 1) and 2) The character can a hex from his chosen Lore spirit (eg Arcane Enlightement –more discussion later), a generic shaman hex ( eg. Fetish, which gives him craft wonderous item, in a slot that he can re-purpose to another hex, when he is not in down time… this of course, has a significant impact on effective WBL), or even a witch hex (by ritualing the shaman hex “Witch Hex”, which can be taken for once for a given shaman.

In particular though, this leads to ritualing up Arcane Enlightenment:

“Arcane Enlightenment (Su): The shaman’s native intelligence grants her the ability to tap into arcane lore. The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare. To cast these spells she must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell’s level, but the saving throw DCs of these spells are based on her Wisdom rather than Intelligence. When she casts these spells, they are treated as divine rather than arcane. Each time the shaman gains a level after taking this hex, she can choose to replace one of these spells for a new spell on the wizard/sorcerer spell list.

Because the archetype retains scribe scroll, he can make scrolls of these spells and then teach them to his familiar. As the normal ruling on something like Ritual Hex allows you to re-choose the spells involved every time he casts the ritual, he theoretically has the entire wizard spell list at his fingertips…


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

That seems a bit OP for my taste. Potential access to every spell? Yes there is a cost element (scroll+possible component) but still. This seems somewhat broken.


chillblame wrote:
That seems a bit OP for my taste. Potential access to every spell? Yes there is a cost element (scroll+possible component) but still. This seems somewhat broken.

Yes, I will give you it seems a little nuts. I take it you would rather have a a) different character or b) make some different interpretations; your call...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think that I would rule that you cannot transfer spells from arcane enlightenment cannot be transferred to a familiar or spellbook. It is a bit of a fudge but does solve the main issue.

Or you could do a different class option


Ok, I am fully cool with Arcane Enlightenment being not usable to craft scrolls/add to the spells known in some fashion. I will post the character.

I will also make you a second option, if you change your mind about other things. It's still quite punchy, IMO. The build developed when I saw the archetype list had rated Spirit Whisperer as a negative to both power and versatility - I said what the hell, and well, maybe I just don't understand those people...


For (1), I’m fine with describing the question as controversial/ambiguous. Most threads on the topic say “it’s not RAW, but in a home game sure” and eventually someone posts a link to the SKR post.

(2) isn’t a reasonable interpretation. Four examples for comparison; the shaman hex class feature description, the shaman wandering hex description, the unsworn shaman hex feature, and the name keeper versatile hex class feature: all four cleanly distinguish between shaman hexes and hexes granted by a spirit. There’s no FAQ for Spirit Whisperer because no one’s ever interpreted it as you.

For (3), you could take Arcane Enlightenment, but it’s not clear what that would do. You add spells that are already on your class list “to the list of shaman spells you can prepare”. You can’t prepare shaman spells, but even editing that to say “Wizard spells you can prepare”, it’s not clear if that’s just adding them to your class list (which would do nothing) or treating them as spells your familiar knows. Even declaring it works in the most convenient fashion, it’s not that strong to make a bunch of scrolls: it’s much cheaper for a standard Wizard to copy as many spells as he wants from the local magic shop to his Blessed Book, or even a standard Spellbook.

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