Varnhold Vanishing - the Soul Eater

[Canarr]

I've been reading through VV (again) in preparation for running it hopefully sometime next year, and this time I stumbled a bit when reading the Soul Eater stats.

The Soul Eater has only natural attacks, no Spell-like abilities and no Spell Resistance. Which basically means that any cleric wielding a wand of Protection from Evil can basically keep the thing away from its intended victim forever.

Is that true, or did I miss something? Was this an issue for anyone here?

[Gargs454]

I believe you are correct. The soul eaters are the proverbial "glass canons". They have the potential to be extremely damaging/deadly, but if approached well by the party, they can also be beat down pretty quickly.

For my group I used the advanced soul eater from the 6 player conversion due to party size, but I also made sure that the first one hit the party at night. When they were sleeping. Its damage really does depend upon the victim failing her saves, so it does kinda feel ok as a glass canon type critter.

My group never thought to try Protection from Evil on them though.

[Canarr]

Gargs454 wrote:

I believe you are correct. The soul eaters are the proverbial "glass canons". They have the potential to be extremely damaging/deadly, but if approached well by the party, they can also be beat down pretty quickly.

For my group I used the advanced soul eater from the 6 player conversion due to party size, but I also made sure that the first one hit the party at night. When they were sleeping. Its damage really does depend upon the victim failing her saves, so it does kinda feel ok as a glass canon type critter.

My group never thought to try Protection from Evil on them though.

Thanks. I'm okay with glass cannons, but they should have an actual chance of doing damage before going down. A single critter vs. a party is always going to have a hard time, but this thing depends a lot on the players not using that single level one spell. And my party's cleric uses that a lot...

[Gargs454]

Canarr wrote:

Thanks. I'm okay with glass cannons, but they should have an actual chance of doing damage before going down. A single critter vs. a party is always going to have a hard time, but this thing depends a lot on the players not using that single level one spell. And my party's cleric uses that a lot...

Yeah in that case, you may want to bundle it with something else, or really make certain you are able to ambush the party at an opportune time, etc. The one good thing here is that V is watching the party for some time thanks to his familiar, so he would likely be aware of that particular tactic and would plan accordingly.

[pennywit]

A couple other data points:

1) Protection from Evil has a duration of 1 minute per level.

2) The Soul Eater has a Stealth bonus of +20 (+28 in darkness or smoke)

3) The Soul Eater has a 100' flight speed with perfect maneuverability.

4) The Soul Eater has Flyby Attack.

Some things to think about.

* Protection From Evil is a short duration spell. Are the players casting it on themselves every day? Every minute of every day? All the time? Do they cast it on themselves while they are asleep? While they are back in their castle? While they are meeting with foreign emissaries in the throne room?

* Is the Soul Eater going to attack them while they're at their strongest? Or is it going to attack them after they're exhausted from a big battle? Will the Soul Eater attack them when they're all together? Or will it wait until they're separated? Is the Soul Eater going to just attack, attack attack, or will it zoom away and lure them into a trap somewhere?

* Is the Soul Eater going to flail around at them when it realizes it can't touch its immediate target? OR is it going to withdraw, wait for Protection from Evil to wear off, and come back?

* Might the Soul Eater attack the players back in their kingdom? And if it does, will it keep flailing at the untouchable mighty hero with his Protection from Evil? OR will it draw the hero out by killing (and stealing the souls) of as many helpless kingdom citizens as it can?

[Canarr]

A few good points, thanks. I've been looking into what other outsiders Vordakai can call in using the Oculus of Abaddon - preferably something that can cast Dispel Magic. Or I'll steal the idea someone on these boards had and let Vordakai teleport invisibly with the Soul Stealer to provide spell support.

I know that Protection from Evil isn't a long-term solution. But a Wand of the spell is cheap and easy to make, and will likely be the first thing my players think to make after suffering the first attack and understanding the nature of the monster. There's no way the PCs will have the spell on them 24/7, no, but they'll keep it prepared once they know the enemy is summoning evil outsiders.

The Soul Eater's speed, stealth and Fly skill certainly lend themselves to hit and run tactics, that's true. But it lacks the knowledge skills to understand spells and spellcasting, so waiting out the spell duration is a bit questionable. Attacking other party members or innocents to draw out its intended target is probably the best strategy here.

Concerning the timing of the attack, that's a good point. While the Soul Eater itself is described as going directly after its target, Vordakai certainly is smart enough to make use of Greater Scrying to dispatch his minion at an inopportune moment. Night attacks are always a fun strategy...

[pennywit]

One other thing -- the Spell Eater itself might not understand magic, but it certainly will notice if it suddenly can't touch its target. And I wouldn't put it past Vordakai to teach the silly thing how to recognize Protection from Evil and when it runs out.

Also .. this is interesting. Does Protection From Evil really hedge the thing out? Protection from evil protects from "summoned" creatures. But Planar Binding (the Oculus spell) is a conjuration (calling) spell.

[Canarr]

Interesting question... guess I‘ll have to check out some rule discussion threads.

[Canarr]

Couldn't find anything official, but the existing discussions on the internet seem to point towards creatures brought in by conjuration (calling) spells are not affected by the Protection spells. Aside from the bonus to AC and saves, and protection from domination, that is.