Vivacious Bravado counterintuitive to the class?


Swashbuckler Playtest

Silver Crusade

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Vivacious Bravado wrote:
Your panache swells your ego with bravado, granting you a temporary reprieve from your pain. You gain temporary Hit Points equal to your level plus your Charisma modifier that last as long as you have panache.

Getting temp HP is nice, but the manner in which you get it I foresee leading to two odd scenarios. The first has you play it safe and not use your Finishers (barring good luck with the Feat Finishing Follow-Through, which I think should be a core ability honestly), which just seems at odds with the daredevil badassery of the Swashbuckler. The second is to still use Finishers, and promptly lose your temp HP, making the Feat rather unreliable, even though you do get more temp HP every time you resume Panache.


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My best guess is, at the end of the day, you're still a martial. You'll be in the thick of the fight, getting hit. If you have refillable temp hp to help mitigate hits, it helps the fiction of the daring daredevil who keeps on in a fight long past lesser combatants. So chill out long enough to soak a hit, then back to burning panache.

Silver Crusade

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A frontliner daredevil... that has to "chill" happenstance doesn't really mesh.


Rysky wrote:
A frontliner daredevil... that has to "chill" happenstance doesn't really mesh.

To be fair, that's just poor word choice on my part.

I really just mean take the temp hp for safety, because you're in the middle of a brawl, and certainly take advantage of any chance to renew it.

Silver Crusade

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*nods*

Yeah, the only issue is that that temp HP is too variable to be trustworthy, unless you don't use your main offensive features.

Which people want to do, so they're probably not gonna take that feat.


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In another thread Mark describes one of their design goals to be to let the player rapidly gain and spend panache so you aren't hoarding it for the right moment.

An ability that specifically requires you to sit on your Panache does seem kind of counter to that philosophy, yeah.


I think the amount generated is pretty generous, but I do think they should persist until after panache so you can, for instance generate panache, generate thp and then use a finisher.


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Maybe if it lasted for a single panache-less round? So if you expend your panache but manage to generate it again before your next turn ends then you get to keep the temp HP.

Silver Crusade

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Yeah, some sort of delay maybe.

1 round would work, though as it stands when you regain Panache you get new Temp HP, so wording to overwrite the old/allow the new as well.


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Or perhaps you are able to convert your remaining temp hp into additional damage or some other bonus to whatever activity expends your panache?


After having another look, i feel like this is mostly for 'stand and fight/locked in a duel' moments. Like when you just want more survivability for a straight fight, because hey you never know.

Edit: which still runs counter to the classes main focus, but hey playing against type i suppose.


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I was trying to do a quick read-through, but is there anything stopping you from using a finisher early in your turn and then generating panache with a subsequent action? Thus refreshing your temp hp until your next turn when you could essentially repeat this, gaining hp every round?

That seems pretty good to me, like bringing back the playtest barbarian's temp hp every three rounds only potentially better. Like being so cool they restore their own combat stamina.

Silver Crusade

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No, you could theoretically Finish and then Tumble Through.

I don’t think it’s a bad feat, i just think the mentality it might induce (need to conserve) is counterproductive to the the feel of the Swashbuckler.


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Yeah, it's not hard to imagine on rounds 2+ doing action 1 finisher, action 2 generate panache, action 3 vivacious bravado to generate temp HP to take hits until your next turn when you repeat the cycle.


I think Vivacious Bravado has really good synergy with the Braggart style.

Swashbuckler wrote:


Braggart
You boast, taunt, and psychologically throw your foes off balance. You are trained in Intimidation. You start an encounter with panache if you rolled Intimidation for initiative. You gain panache during an encounter whenever you successfully Demoralize a foe.

Hit with a finisher, then attempt to Demoralize your opponent to regain Panache.


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Interesting, I think they may have been playing with when you lose your panache. On page 26 is says you lose Panache right after using the finisher. "You can use a finisher only if you have panache,
and you lose your panache immediately after performing a
finisher."

However, if you look at FINISHING FOLLOW-THROUGH on page 29, it modifies the loss of panache. But note, it makes it so you don't lose it, but the interesting part is that it makes a note of the time you don't lose it. "If your finisher brings the target of your Strike to 0 Hit Points (or brings the highest-level target to 0 Hit Points, if your finisher allows you to attack multiple targets), you do not lose your panache at the start of your next turn." The implication being that perhaps at one point they were saying that you kept panache until the start of your next turn after doing a finisher.

Perhaps a relatively simple solution would be to have the temporary HP from Vivacious Bravado last until the start of a turn where you no longer have Panache. That way you would continue to have the benefit of some Temporary HP to soak up the potential ramifications of your daring action, as your opponents step through their turns.

Alternately, it could exist until you complete a full turn, without having panache during any of it, losing the temporary HP at the end of your turn.


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Just because the class is aiming for cycling your panache doesn't mean there shouldn't be any support for the folks who focus on its use as a buff! This gives those builds a nice tempting third action in place of the skill check action for regaining panache.

Silver Crusade

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Loreguard wrote:

Interesting, I think they may have been playing with when you lose your panache. On page 26 is says you lose Panache right after using the finisher. "You can use a finisher only if you have panache,

and you lose your panache immediately after performing a
finisher."

However, if you look at FINISHING FOLLOW-THROUGH on page 29, it modifies the loss of panache. But note, it makes it so you don't lose it, but the interesting part is that it makes a note of the time you don't lose it. "If your finisher brings the target of your Strike to 0 Hit Points (or brings the highest-level target to 0 Hit Points, if your finisher allows you to attack multiple targets), you do not lose your panache at the start of your next turn." The implication being that perhaps at one point they were saying that you kept panache until the start of your next turn after doing a finisher.

Perhaps a relatively simple solution would be to have the temporary HP from Vivacious Bravado last until the start of a turn where you no longer have Panache. That way you would continue to have the benefit of some Temporary HP to soak up the potential ramifications of your daring action, as your opponents step through their turns.

Alternately, it could exist until you complete a full turn, without having panache during any of it, losing the temporary HP at the end of your turn.

Finishing Follow-Through was a typo, it’s been errated on the main Swashbuckler thread.


There's quite a few scenarios where you could have panache at the end of your turn with only one action left. This feat is for those scenarios, as a good defensive third action for those that don't want a shield. Even daredevil swashbucklers need caution some times.

Silver Crusade

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*nods*


It's borderline overpowered.

While having panache all your attacks do notably more damage.

Every time you take damage use a finisher. Regain temporary hp.

It's got when you need to be a tank


Martialmasters wrote:

It's borderline overpowered.

While having panache all your attacks do notably more damage.

Every time you take damage use a finisher. Regain temporary hp.

It's got when you need to be a tank

You don't need to drop panache to regain the temp hp, you just have to take the action again. I agree the numbers might be too high for a one action spammable ability. It seems better than raising a buckler to me, would need to compare monster hit and damage numbers to this to know for sure which wins out in which situations, but it costs a feat and requires maintaining panache so that's OK in my eyes. I think the bonus damage from finishers is juicy enough that someone trying to play a "bravado tank" would still probably drop it for a finisher fairly regularly, if they aren't expecting more damage to come their way and/or want to finish off an enemy.

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