Dragging a friend in combat


Rules Discussion


Isn't there a middle ground between carrying less than your Strength + 10 Bulk on one hand, and dragging something heavy 50 feet in a minute on the other.

In other words, I can't seem to find a rule telling me how far I can drag a fallen ally in a single round, much less per action spent.

Dragging something makes its Bulk count as half, but that seems only to apply for Exploration (and minute per minute).

But if I need to move something heavier than Bulk 10 with Strength 10, how far do I get in an action (and can it even be done?).


Keep in mind that the Bulk rules deal more with outright carrying than simply grabbing something to move it.

I'd honestly just ask your GM about it.


Let's extrapolate.

Dragging says you go roughly 50ft per minute.

Let's assume that's for a creature with a 25ft movement speed. Normally such a creature could go 250ft per minute, a reduction to 1/5 normal speed.

Following that login gets us to Drag moves 5ft as an action (1/5 of normal speed)

That seems like a reasonable conclusion for most situations.


Yeah dragging 5 feet per action is what I did recently.


I might grant a bonus IF you have two on hand to play stretcher bearers. Useful if you had nondead (or, for necromancers, undead) friends around.


Okay... so the rules really ARE silent on this issue?


Zapp wrote:
Okay... so the rules really ARE silent on this issue?

No, the rules are not silent on this.

The Rules wrote:
In some situations, you might drag an object or creature rather than carry it. If you’re dragging something, treat its Bulk as half. Typically, you can drag one thing at a time, you must use both hands to do so, and you drag slowly—roughly 50 feet per minute unless you have some means to speed it up.

So, unless you have a means of making it go faster you are dragging that person at 5 feet per round.


dirtypool wrote:
Zapp wrote:
Okay... so the rules really ARE silent on this issue?

No, the rules are not silent on this.

The Rules wrote:
In some situations, you might drag an object or creature rather than carry it. If you’re dragging something, treat its Bulk as half. Typically, you can drag one thing at a time, you must use both hands to do so, and you drag slowly—roughly 50 feet per minute unless you have some means to speed it up.
So, unless you have a means of making it go faster you are dragging that person at 5 feet per round.

With the aforementioned asterisk that this probably references the lower actions per round exploration mode, so doing 5 feet per action in encounter mode seems pretty reasonable.


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Captain Morgan wrote:


With the aforementioned asterisk that this probably references the lower actions per round exploration mode, so doing 5 feet per action in encounter mode seems pretty reasonable.

It being found in the equipment chapter, it references no specific mode of play. I would argue the fact that it clearly defines the action with a timetable means it is intended not for the free form exploration mode but for Encounter mode based on the following sentence:

CRB Page 10 wrote:
Encounters usually involve combat, but they can also be used in situations where timing is critical, such as during a chase or when dodging hazards.

One minute to go 50 feet is structured enough that I, as a storyteller, would call it an encounter.


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You could homerule to use the raise shield action if you are grabbing a small creature like a halfling.

Eventually, even use the Shield Block reaction.


dirtypool wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:


With the aforementioned asterisk that this probably references the lower actions per round exploration mode, so doing 5 feet per action in encounter mode seems pretty reasonable.

It being found in the equipment chapter, it references no specific mode of play. I would argue the fact that it clearly defines the action with a timetable means it is intended not for the free form exploration mode but for Encounter mode based on the following sentence:

CRB Page 10 wrote:
Encounters usually involve combat, but they can also be used in situations where timing is critical, such as during a chase or when dodging hazards.
One minute to go 50 feet is structured enough that I, as a storyteller, would call it an encounter.

See, the fact that it is in the equipment chapter makes me think it is more about dragging large pieces of loot out of the dungeon that dragging someone out of the way mid combat. More importantly, though, I think it plays better if you let an action drag someone. Considering on the average turn you will have to move up to your friend as an action and grab them as an interact action, not letting you drag your buddy at least a little bit that same round seems harsh and unfun.

Admittedly that's maybe not the best argument if we were in the rules forum.


dirtypool wrote:
Zapp wrote:
Okay... so the rules really ARE silent on this issue?

No, the rules are not silent on this.

The Rules wrote:
In some situations, you might drag an object or creature rather than carry it. If you’re dragging something, treat its Bulk as half. Typically, you can drag one thing at a time, you must use both hands to do so, and you drag slowly—roughly 50 feet per minute unless you have some means to speed it up.
So, unless you have a means of making it go faster you are dragging that person at 5 feet per round.

So... the rules ARE silent on this, since I'm asking about encounter mode, and you're replying with an extrapolation from exploration mode.

Or rather, what the rules ARE saying is, you can't even budge something bulkier than your Strength + 10.

To me both replies are extreme.


dirtypool wrote:
One minute to go 50 feet is structured enough that I, as a storyteller, would call it an encounter.

And you absolutely should.

As a storyteller.

As a referee, however, I don't need to point out to you that in Encounters characters take things called actions.

And my question is: how far can you carry/drag something exceeding your max Bulk in a single action?


K1 wrote:

You could homerule to use the raise shield action if you are grabbing a small creature like a halfling.

Eventually, even use the Shield Block reaction.

lol


Captain Morgan wrote:
See, the fact that it is in the equipment chapter makes me think it is more about dragging large pieces of loot out of the dungeon that dragging someone out of the way mid combat.

It is in the equipment chapter by dint of that being where the first detailed entry on Bulk is found, and the entry for dragging specifically mentions dragging items or creatures so it isn’t about loot from a dungeon.


Zapp wrote:
So... the rules ARE silent on this, since I'm asking about encounter mode, and you're replying with an extrapolation from exploration mode.

No I’m replying with the dragging rules that appear in the equipment chapter that make no mention of the mode of play. Another poster surmised that these rules were referring to exploration mode.

“Zapp” wrote:
Or rather, what the rules ARE saying is, you can't even budge something bulkier than your Strength + 10.

No, what the rules ARE saying is that if you want to drag something or someone you halve it’s/their bulk, use both hands and it takes a minute to move it 50 feet. Making no mention of what mode of play.


Zapp wrote:
And my question is: how far can you carry/drag something exceeding your max Bulk in a single action?

That is one of your questions, the other was about dragging someone off the battlefield. Page 273 says that a medium creature (most PC’s) has a bulk of 6 and dragging rules say to halve that value.


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Sigh, another poster unable to see reason.

Personally I consider it a bug in the system that there is no medium between Bulk +10, where the penalty is Speed - 10, and Bulk +11, where you no longer can use the action system, and is referred to a vague "50 feet per minute" figure.

The fact that you count dragging Bulk as half does not help, since the Bulk reduction only governs how much you can drag. (Even if the Bulk halving makes the Bulk come down to within your limits, you can still not drag it faster.)

What I want is obviously an answer to:

How far does one action's worth of Drag get you, provided you're not dragging more than twice your Bulk limit. (That is, dragging something whose Bulk/2 does not make your total encumbrance exceed Strength + 10)?

If there was a rule for this, even if it said "5 feet", that would be acceptable, since a character could then devote its entire round to drag a friend 15 feet to safety.

Much more reasonable - playable even. Since PF2 is a highly fantastical game, 5 feet per round comes across as extremely incongruous. The opportunity cost simply is overwhelming. Just consider what a high-level character can accomplish in a whole round!

In effect, your suggestion to use the dragging rules even in Encounter mode is a practical prohibition. Unless you can solve the bulk with magic, you're much better off killing the monsters, and hoping the body survives on its own.

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