Casting Spells Into Darkness

[ClanPsi]

As the subject implies, what are the rules for casting spells into darkness, magical or otherwise? Most spells require a target, whether it's a creature, object or point in space. The best I can find is to roll a 50% miss chance or lose the spell. Is that correct?

[thenobledrake]

Strictly speaking you normally need to be able to "see" your target (see in quotes because perceiving the target with any precise sense is enough, it doesn't have to be specifically sight), but the GM can exercise discretion to allow you to target even what you can't actually see.

That's where the DC 11 flat check can come into play (or a lower flat check DC if the target is only concealed, rather than entirely not visible) - but the spell isn't necessarily "lost" as a result of this flat check; if there's more than one target at play you might successfully affect some of them while not affecting others (based on the results of a flat check made for each target).

[ClanPsi]

So... am I right, or...?
I'm specifically asking with respect to AoE spells. For example, can you cast a fireball into a darkness spell? If yes, does it originate from the point you choose but can't see?

[thenobledrake]

ClanPsi wrote:

So... am I right, or...?

I'm specifically asking with respect to AoE spells. For example, can you cast a fireball into a darkness spell? If yes, does it originate from the point you choose but can't see?

It's a "ask your GM" question because without GM discretion you can't throw a fireball to a point you can't see.

[Tender Tendrils]

Can we attack the darkness?

[Aservan]

I don't think you can attack the darkness, but you could target the center of the emanation as that is a spot. Both fireball and darkness are 20 feet bursts. So just target the center of the darkness with your fireball and boom you get everyone in there.

I mean you can target an area behind a bunch of people charging at you. An area you can't really see accurately because of the oncoming maniacs. Is it really a stretch that a spellcaster can do that math in their head?

[ClanPsi]

Aservan is 100% correct. It isn't really up to DM discretion. All you need is Line of Effect to cast a spell, unless stated specifically by the spell. That means you can blind-cast whatever you want, as long as it doesn't require you to specifically choose targets and the point you want the spell to emiate from isn't behind total cover (or behind a wall or something).

[Franz Lunzer]

That would be close to my ruling, yeah.

For Area of Effect spells like Fireball, yes, you can target any square or grid intersection in a (magical) darkness situation where you can't (clearly) see the point of origin, so long as you have line of effect to that point.

For spells/effects that you have to target a creature, that creature can be hidden at most (-> DC11 flat check to not lose the spell).
Note that a creature you can't see is either hidden (if you know which square it occupies) or undetected (if you don't know which square it occupies).