Disrupt Prey vs. Attack of Opportunity


Rules Discussion


Now that Disrupt Prey is a reaction, is seems like a poor man’s Attack of Opportunity. While DP can be gained at level 4 rather than 6 for AoO, the text of DP is missing two key parts from AoO. 1. DP doesn’t trigger from ranged attacks. 2. DP misses the text about not counting multiple attack penalty that AoO has.

And of course DP can only be used on a hunted prey.

Was DP meant to be AoO but just for prey? Hence being available at level 4 vs 6? Or are these omissions on purpose?


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Attack of Opportunity only stops manipulate actions with a critical hit, disrupt prey stops any of the triggering actions including movement.


Oh nice. Ok so there was one part I missed. Subtle differences everywhere!

That difference makes the power levels understand. Thanks Kyrone.


Mythraine wrote:

Oh nice. Ok so there was one part I missed. Subtle differences everywhere!

That difference makes the power levels understand. Thanks Kyrone.

Well....if Disrupt is subject to MAP from the previous round, then you're going to often need to roll a 20 until you're like 17th level to crit. You're also unlikely to hit as the AoO will be the 3rd or 4th attack. Plus, you'll be motivated to use your agile weapon (doing less damage than a Fighter). Most melee Rangers are going to be using Flurry and Twin Takedown every round.

It should also be pointed out that if you do crit on a trigger, you'll stop that action, but then the target could use another that can't be interrupted.

It would be interesting to see which will have more combat impact, Scout's Warning or Disrupt Prey. I have to think it's got to be Scout's Warning given the fact that Disrupt is limited to Pre, is subject to MAP, and requires a trigger that will occasionally be meta-gamed around by the GM.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
N N 959 wrote:
Mythraine wrote:

Oh nice. Ok so there was one part I missed. Subtle differences everywhere!

That difference makes the power levels understand. Thanks Kyrone.

Well....if Disrupt is subject to MAP from the previous round, then you're going to often need to roll a 20 until you're like 17th level to crit. You're also unlikely to hit as the AoO will be the 3rd or 4th attack. Plus, you'll be motivated to use your agile weapon (doing less damage than a Fighter). Most melee Rangers are going to be using Flurry and Twin Takedown every round.

It should also be pointed out that if you do crit on a trigger, you'll stop that action, but then the target could use another that can't be interrupted.

It would be interesting to see which will have more combat impact, Scout's Warning or Disrupt Prey. I have to think it's got to be Scout's Warning given the fact that Disrupt is limited to Pre, is subject to MAP, and requires a trigger that will occasionally be meta-gamed around by the GM.

Out of turn reactions, like disrupt prey usually is, are not subject to MAP from the previous round.

Page 446 states, in the definition of MAP, "The multiple attack penalty applies only during your turn, so you don’t have to keep track of it if you can perform an Attack of Opportunity or a similar reaction that lets you make a Strike on someone else’s turn."


Thank you for posting that.


Mythraine wrote:

Now that Disrupt Prey is a reaction, is seems like a poor man’s Attack of Opportunity. While DP can be gained at level 4 rather than 6 for AoO, the text of DP is missing two key parts from AoO. 1. DP doesn’t trigger from ranged attacks. 2. DP misses the text about not counting multiple attack penalty that AoO has.

And of course DP can only be used on a hunted prey.

Was DP meant to be AoO but just for prey? Hence being available at level 4 vs 6? Or are these omissions on purpose?

Even when it was a free action, Disrupt Prey was quite bad. In fact, I don't see many cases where it works:

- It doesn't work for ranged attacks.
- It works for movement, but you'll be in general next to your prey as you mostly deal damage to it. And Rangers are not often using Reach weapons as they look in general for one handed weapons.
- It works for spellcasters and in that case the advantage of disrupting on a crit is the same than with an AoO.

If you can afford a Dedication, just take AoO from the Fighter or Barbarian Dedication. It costs 2-3 feats, but it gives you an actual edge.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

There are a few other things that could come up fairly often where disrupt prey would trigger, like the enemy standing if they've been tripped, or when they try to draw a weapon, if you got the drop on them.

It is not as powerful as AoO, but it isn't useless, either.


HammerJack wrote:

There are a few other things that could come up fairly often where disrupt prey would trigger, like the enemy standing if they've been tripped, or when they try to draw a weapon, if you got the drop on them.

It is not as powerful as AoO, but it isn't useless, either.

As it doesn't trigger on ranged attacks, there are very few situations where your enemy will draw another weapon.

And Trip is hard to use for a Ranger because of action economy (you need one action to Hunt Prey, one to Twin Strike and one to Trip, so you need to start next to the enemy, trip an enemy who survived 2 rounds or rely on someone else doing the trip for you). Also, if you rely on Trip, you need to prey on low Reflex enemies, which is affecting your fighting abilities.
I can't say it's useless, but I've tried to build an Outwit Ranger and I was finding Disrupt Prey a nice way of "outwitting" your foe. And I haven't found a single way of triggering it that wouldn't be clumsy and unreliable.
On the other hand, Rangers have strength and dexterity to take Fighter Dedication. It's one extra feat but you get a very reliable way of getting extra attacks.


SuperBidi wrote:


As it doesn't trigger on ranged attacks, there are very few situations where your enemy will draw another weapon.
And Trip is hard to use for a Ranger because of action economy (you need one action to Hunt Prey, one to Twin Strike and one to Trip, so you need to start next to the enemy, trip an enemy who survived 2 rounds or rely on someone else doing the trip for you). Also, if you rely on Trip, you need to prey on low Reflex enemies, which is affecting your fighting abilities.
I can't say it's useless, but I've tried to build an Outwit Ranger and I was finding Disrupt Prey a nice way of "outwitting" your foe. And I haven't found a single way of triggering it that wouldn't be clumsy and unreliable.
On the other hand, Rangers have strength and dexterity to take Fighter Dedication. It's one extra feat but you get a very reliable way of getting extra attacks.

For this build I would personally go wolf animal companion for the trips and flanking buddy, and just do sword and board instead of 2 weapon fighting since you have plenty of things to spend feats on already.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
HammerJack wrote:

There are a few other things that could come up fairly often where disrupt prey would trigger, like the enemy standing if they've been tripped, or when they try to draw a weapon, if you got the drop on them.

It is not as powerful as AoO, but it isn't useless, either.

As it doesn't trigger on ranged attacks, there are very few situations where your enemy will draw another weapon.

This is why I said "if you got the drop on them." I was talking about draw I ng their first weapon. I'm saying this is something that comes up, not that it's something that comes up in every combat.

Quote:


And Trip is hard to use for a Ranger because of action economy (you need one action to Hunt Prey, one to Twin Strike and one to Trip, so you need to start next to the enemy, trip an enemy who survived 2 rounds or rely on someone else doing the trip for you). Also, if you rely on Trip, you need to prey on low Reflex enemies, which is affecting your fighting abilities.

There's nothing wrong with teamwork. And neither starting a round next to an enemy or having an enemy survive the round where you mark them as your prey is that uncommon of a situation.

Quote:


I can't say it's useless, but I've tried to build an Outwit Ranger and I was finding Disrupt Prey a nice way of "outwitting" your foe. And I haven't found a single way of triggering it that wouldn't be clumsy and unreliable.
On the other hand, Rangers have strength and dexterity to take Fighter Dedication. It's one extra feat but you get a very reliable way of getting extra attacks.


Get a wolf companion and a wolf stance monk friend for all the trips :)


You need to wait for level 10 before using the advanced maneuver... But I agree with you it's certainly the most reliable way to trigger Disrupt Prey.


HammerJack wrote:
There's nothing wrong with teamwork. And neither starting a round next to an enemy or having an enemy survive the round where you mark them as your prey is that uncommon of a situation.

Teamwork during combat, not during the build phase. Telling your Fighter player that he needs to use a flail and not a sword because of your build is a bit too much in my opinion.

Starting a round next to an enemy, managing to trip it, and not killing it so it can stand up... of course, it can happen, but the more conditions the more unreliable the strategy.

AoOs are far easier to trigger. You can catch so many more opportunities you can consider them relatively reliable.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think precision Rangers can do just fine with a reach weapon. A two handed weapon has advantages over dual wielding when it comes to switch hitting and otherwise needing to get your weapons out.

A mock build I came up with in my head using a Guisarme

Human Ranger
1st: Animal Companion (Wolf)
Natural Ambition: Hunted Shot

2nd: Quick Draw

4th: Disrupt Prey

6th: Mature Companion

8th: Snap Shot or Skirmish Strike

10th: Incredible Companion

There's a lot of fun things you can do to a Hunted Prey with this, like striking them, using your wolf to lower their speed, and then falling back so they have to double move to get back at you and take a Disrupt on the way. (Unless they attack the wolf, but hey, it isn't you or the other players then.) It does really love to be hasted though, as 3 actions will be a little tight sometimes.

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