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Say your augury (monster) a proxy, but its a danger. Danger can be monster or barrier. You can roll to see if it a monster or barrier. Assume its a barrier per the roll, it gets shuffled back in. Next time you encounter it, it is still a danger. Do you roll again?

What happens to items or cards displayed at a location when it is closed? Let's use the Cohort-Tonbarse as an example. Does he auto return to his owners hand? does he get to move like a player?


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The rulebook says "Treat a proxy as if it is the card it’s proxying." Exactly how that interacts will depend on the wording in the storybook, which I don't have access to at the moment (and won't for quite some time). Can you quote the specific parts of the storybook that relate to this situation?


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IMHO:

1) Cards have no memories.
Anytime you examine or encounter a card, you may have to roll dice to know it's exact nature (e. g. the Danger, but also a Dragon or an Elemental). But you'll have to roll again next time you examine or encounter it.

So let's say you get to examine the first card of location and it is a Dragon that has as powers:
- Roll 1d4, on 1 all damage is electricity, on 1....
- When examined, suffer 1 damage...
You will roll to know the type of damage you suffer when examining, and if you then decide to encounter, you will roll again because... it's not really the same dragon that you encounter.

Feels strange but that's the rule. At least you knew it was "some kind" of dragon.

Same goes for the Danger.

2) Displayed cards are discarded when the card that they are displayed "near" to (character card, location, scenario...) is itself no more displayed. It's not really written but we interpreted it this way building on the following sentence from the Reference Sheet at the end of the Rulebook : "Display: Place it faceup next to your deck, unless stated otherwise; the card’s powers function until it’s discarded" which seems to indicate that the default effect for a displayed card when its location is no more valid is to get discarded.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
Say your augury (monster) a proxy, but its a danger. Danger can be monster or barrier. You can roll to see if it a monster or barrier. Assume its a barrier per the roll, it gets shuffled back in. Next time you encounter it, it is still a danger. Do you roll again?

I couldn't actually find a scenario in Curse that uses Proxy for random danger, but if so - that's a new and unique problem in post-Core PACG, introduced by the use of Proxies, where a single *physical* card can actually represent different things. There is NO actual rule in the Rulebook for the situation you describe, as far as I know.

The only circumstantial precedent you can fall back on if the PACG app from Obsidian. There's an Ogre monster in there, that requires you to roll 1d4 to determine its powers; but if evaded or undefeated - it shuffles back while KEEPING its rolled effect (so the card doesn't actually change when encountered the second time). On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that's not the intended play for the physical game...

EDIT: Frencois ninja'd me and a RAW reading should be pretty much what he says. Unfortunately, RAW seems like a very rude immersion-breaking bull$hit. At the very least, examining the top card of a location and determining it's a "Card/power X", then immediately exploring, encountering it and being able to determine that it's now "Card/power Y" feels downright absurd.

Slacker2010 wrote:
What happens to items or cards displayed at a location when it is closed? Let's use the Cohort-Tonbarse as an example. Does he auto return to his owners hand? does he get to move like a player?

They remain there unless a power instructs you otherwise. For practical reasons, you can just remove the card from your table if it's obvious it won't come into play any longer.

Tonbarse would just stay in a "void" until the start/end of you turn when you can draw him/her back.

As another example, the barrier Thunderstorm says:
"Display this barrier at your location.

When you start your turn at this location, roll 1d4. On a 1, suffer 1d6 Electricity damage then banish this barrier. On any other result, display this barrier next to a random location. "

So, you close that location mid-turn, and immediately banish it and move (per Core rules). Thunderstorm stays display, but since its power can no longer be triggered (no one can start their turn at its location because the location no longer exists) - you can just throw it back in the box.


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Longshot11 wrote:
Slacker2010 wrote:
Say your augury (monster) a proxy, but its a danger. Danger can be monster or barrier. You can roll to see if it a monster or barrier. Assume its a barrier per the roll, it gets shuffled back in. Next time you encounter it, it is still a danger. Do you roll again?
I couldn't actually find a scenario in Curse that uses Proxy for random danger, but if so - that's a new and unique problem in post-Core PACG, introduced by the use of Proxies, where a single *physical* card can actually represent different things.

The same issue came up in another thread, as organized play scenario 6-1A has a proxy that represents a random danger.

The clarification was that, if examined, the 6-1A proxy represents neither a monster or barrier. It's just a proxy card. This isn't a general rule, however, as 6-1A goes out of its way to specify that encountering the proxy is what triggers the resolution of the danger - and examining isn't encountering.


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Longshot11 wrote:
... but if so - that's a new and unique problem in post-Core PACG, introduced by the use of Proxies, where a single *physical* card can actually represent different things.

Sorry for the ninj'ed Longshot.

As I said I don't think the issue is only linked to the use of Proxies. To avoid just a partial potential clarification from the higher powers, I want to point out that the issue is general to any card that can indeed represent multiple different things (like different dragons) based on a dice you roll when you examine/encounter the card, because of the "cards have no memory" Mega-Rule that went deep from the heart of Mike.


I posted my question to Vic in the thread linked by wkover in post #5.

I disagree by the way. According to that logic, any danger or proxy that has a trigger would never trigger. Currently we are rolling to see what it is. Then based on that roll acting accordingly. When it is re-encountered or exam-ed, we would roll again.

Only Frencois and Longshot11 gave insight into the Cohort-Tonbarse situation. I very much disagree with Frencois view of discarding him if he is at a closing location. One of Alase's role cards even allows him to help people close his location. In no way would I expect that was intended to LOSE your Eidolon for such a small bonus.

I could accept Longshot11's explanation but then you still have to have an area to store him when the point of removing locations is downsizing. Also, this could allow Alase to be caught without him if someone else closes and she is moved before her turn. I dont see why he couldnt move with her.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
I very much disagree with Frencois view of discarding him if he is at a closing location. One of Alase's role cards even allows him to help people close his location. In no way would I expect that was intended to LOSE your Eidolon for such a small bonus.

This is not a good argument, as Tonbarse came along LONG before the new Core introduced banishable locations; in pre-Core, he would always be displayed on a location - even if it's closed one.

Slacker2010 wrote:
I could accept Longshot11's explanation but then you still have to have an area to store him when the point of removing locations is downsizing.

See above; you should really not judge any pre-Core card by a post-Core context. Tonbarse is a no-issue either way (see below), but otherwise - you can just gather any "displayed in limbo" cards in a separate pile to the side; at the end of game, all banes go to the Vault, all boons (and cohorts, I suppose) go to the sum of "your cards" for the character who displayed them, and any other support cards go to their intended place (usually the Support section in the Vault).

Slacker2010 wrote:

Also, this could allow Alase to be caught without him if someone else closes and she is moved before her turn. I dont see why he couldnt move with her.

I... am not sure if I'm understanding the issue here. What do you mean Alase will be "caught without him"?! From what I see of Tobarse 's card - you can only return him to your hand at start or end of turn - and this would act exactly the same, regardless if someone banished his location and caused Alase to move (post-Core) or if someone closed his location and Alase stays there until the start of her next turn(pre-Core) ?!?

(OK, technically, there IS some difference, as - even though a few rare cards might cause you to encounter a card in a closed location even in pre-Core- you are generally pretty safe in closed location *in pre-Core environment*. In post-Core however, you're always at an open location where a lot of nasty stuff can target you (and even if you're playing a pre-Core campaign with post-Core conversion rules - none of the post-Core cards specify "at an open location" target - so you're never safe at a closed location anymore).
So, yes, post-Core game is quite more dangerous, but this has NOTHING to do with Tonbarse and everything to with the new post-Core rules; which may or may not be your cup of tea, *grumble*)

To answer "I dont see why he couldnt move with her." directly: because nothing tells you that you can do so. The rule you're looking for is "Cards do what say; cards don't do what they don't say."


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
I very much disagree with Frencois view of discarding him if he is at a closing location.

To be clear, I'm not saying that it SHOULD work like that, I'm just saying that RAW I think it DOES.

Maybe it should work differently, but then something should be written somewhere that isn't yet IMHO.


Longshot11 wrote:
Stuff

I agree 98% with what you say. There are a lot of modifications that needed to be made to convert all the characters from Pre to Post Core. This I believe is an oversite. They had to change the way all the witch cohorts worked to keep in with the design intent.

In Pre-core, if you chose, you could almost never be caught without your Eidolon. (I realize there are some forced movements that could disrupt this. These still exist so that doesnt change). Now in Post-core, each time a location closes you are forced to move to a hostile location and could be forced into combat or whatnot without the Eidolon. Keeping in line with how she use to function, it would make sense that upon closing the Eidolon could move with her.

I guess this Should have been captured in the "Core Set Version Character Sheets for Legacy Characters?" Thread


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
In Pre-core, if you chose, you could almost never be caught without your Eidolon.

One could argue that just the tactical requirements have changed. If you feel strongly about that - then your companions should just make sure they don't banish your location from under your feet <*must...resist... urge to rant about banishable locations again..*>

Otherwise, I thought you're asking how things *work*, not how maybe they *should work*. In the later case, I'd agree playing Alase post-Core is inherently more dangerous than pre-Core, to a greater degree than this is true for most other characters, so feel free to home rule it pending any official FAQ.


Didnt feel like starting another thread so...

I cant find the answer in the new rule book on handling summoned cards, summoning other cards. The only reference I find is:

Rulebook wrote:
A summoned card can’t cause you to summon a copy of itself or of the card that summoned it.

So as long as you don't get a repeat, you can keep triggering more summons?

Example: "Summoned Monster 1" tells you to summon and encounter the danger. You roll and get "Green druid guy" who tells you to summon a dire wolf and encounter first.

None of those are the same card, so by my understanding, they all trigger. The chain could keep going in theory. What happens if you have to summon the "Danger" more than once? Do you keep rolling on the chart if the danger refers you to one of the charts? In fact, the same monster can come up as long as it was farther up the chain than one step. Is that correct?

=========================================================

Also for conformation: It was questioned, if I use an ally to explore and that ally gives me a bonus during my exploration, does that apply to closing the location triggered from a defeating a closing Henchman?

I believe it does, but it came up.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Slacker2010 wrote:
In fact, the same monster can come up as long as it was farther up the chain than one step. Is that correct?

The rest is correct, but I'm actually unclear on this as well. It all depends on how restrictively you read "A summoned card can’t cause you to summon a copy of itself"

- does it "cause" you if it directly attempts to summon a copy or if it has started a chain that might cause you to summon a copy?
- also, theoretically, I would be unclear if a specific card instructs me to summon a random Danger, but I can roll that very same card on the Danger list - would I ignore impossible instructon and ignore the summon OR should I exclude that same card from the random roll to begin with?

Slacker2010 wrote:

It was questioned, if I use an ally to explore and that ally gives me a bonus during my exploration, does that apply to closing the location triggered from a defeating a closing Henchman?

I believe it does, but it came up.

Correct. The closing attempt is not part of your ENCOUNTER with the Henchman (for whatever effects might be concerned), but it IS a part of your EXPLORATION.


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

Your exploration doesn't end until that specific exploration step ends (in Core each exploration is its own step). Basically, "Until you stop processing effects triggered by your exploration (and thus until you get a chance to cast a spell like Cure or a chance to use a boon to explore again), you're still in an exploration".

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