dumb question but how much do new spells cost?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Since wizards don't get spells automatically like sorcerers they have to buy or find new spells right? Where in the books does it say how much it costs to buy new spells?


Wizards get two free spells per level.

Adding additional spells costs level x level x 10, ie, ten times level squared so 90 gold for a level three spell, plus the cost of a scroll if it was copied from a scroll (which would be consumed).


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Lelomenia wrote:
(which would be consumed).

What page is that on? I've been trying to find the answer to that

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CrystalSeas wrote:
Lelomenia wrote:
(which would be consumed).
What page is that on? I've been trying to find the answer to that

link to online rules


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Thanks


Question: why couldn't a wizard just charge people to copy spells from his own spellbook? That way he could make more money since the spellbook isn't used up and can be copied as many times as he wants/


Yqatuba wrote:
Question: why couldn't a wizard just charge people to copy spells from his own spellbook? That way he could make more money since the spellbook isn't used up and can be copied as many times as he wants/

He can. Are you asking about rules for NPCs charging PCs, or asking about PCs running a side business?


NPCs charging


How much will NPCs charge for the privilege of copying spells from their spell book, you ask?

Core Rulebook p. 219

Quote:

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of

copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually
equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see
Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook). Rare and unique
spells might cost significantly more.

On a related note. You might want to switch to using a blessed book (Core Rulebook p. 502) at some point. Maybe around your 10th level. The cost to add spells into a normal spellbook becomes quite expensive as you go up spell levels. There is no cost for adding a spell into a blessed book, other than the cost of the book. It has a 1000 pages, so each page is worth 12.5 gp. Level 9 spells can cost 810 gp to write into normal spell books, but a blessed book will only use up 112.5 gp worth of pages (9 pages).


Yqatuba wrote:
NPCs charging

To buy spells from NPCs the GM has to introduce appropriate NPCs to the world, and figure out what spells the NPC has available. Your typical hamlet might have zero spell casters in it.

A Town on the other hand might have some low level casters with appropriate spell books. Or it could house the tower of a high level caster that wants to avoid big city life. It really depends on the campaign setting. (and there better be a good reason the wizard didn't solve the town's troubles instead of the party)

If you go to a metropolis with proper information gathering you should be able to find every commonly known spell. Some will be in the collections of wizards, schools, libraries, and even specialty merchants that collect spellbooks for this purpose. One of the easiest explanations in Galorian for a collection of spells to copy would be approaching a Temple of Nethys. Nethys as a god of magic, his clergy should find collecting and spreading the knowledge of magic as a sacred duty. And of course the temple would demand an appropriate donation for their services.


Why wouldn't spellcasters always let people pay to copy from their spellbooks rather than make scrolls? Scrolls cost money to make, whereas letting someone copy doesn't cost a thing.

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Yqatuba wrote:
Why wouldn't spellcasters always let people pay to copy from their spellbooks rather than make scrolls? Scrolls cost money to make, whereas letting someone copy doesn't cost a thing.

Wizards could easily charge persons for CASTING the spell, and if they are the only person in XXX miles that knows a particular spell...

Party of adventurers: "What the heck is this thing anyway? Any way we can find more out about this McGuffin?"
NPC Wizard: "Well.... I could cast Legend Lore."
Party of adventurers turns to their wizard.
PC Wizard: "Guys! I picked Disintegrate and Wall of Iron for my 6th level spells... Heck! Divination is my Prohibited School!"

NPC Wizard: "so, cost to cast a 6th level spell, with my caster level, plus the Material Components cost, plus Focus, plus Overage and Union Dues and Risk Insurance (have to handle the item), factor in a Spell Rarity Multiplier comes to... hmmm..."

yeah.

Got to be sure EVERYONE doesn't have access to this spell - wouldn't want to put ourselves out of business.

Why craft a scroll? not to pass the spell off to someone else - scrolls are to have the spell when you run out of spell slots. Or don't want to prep a spell that is very handy ... some times. Like Comprehend Languages.

The Exchange

Yqatuba wrote:
Why wouldn't spellcasters always let people pay to copy from their spellbooks rather than make scrolls? Scrolls cost money to make, whereas letting someone copy doesn't cost a thing.

NPC wizard: "Here's the rental cost to borrow your spellbook to copy from it... and did I mention that I prepared plane shift today?"

No way would I let my spellbook out of my sight! Sure, I'll sell you a scroll, but no way am I going to let anyone even SEE my actual spellbook.


From the rules, one would assume most wizards choose to pay the book-copying price to local NPCs where possible, and the scroll rules are only used in campaigns where NPC wizards are unavailable and/or have limited spell selections.


Meirril wrote:


Your typical hamlet might have zero spell casters in it.

Even if there are no arcane casters I would guess the town church has at least one cleric in it

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Yqatuba wrote:
Meirril wrote:


Your typical hamlet might have zero spell casters in it.
Even if there are no arcane casters I would guess the town church has at least one cleric in it

but... arcane casters can't use divine scrolls. And most divine casters actually don't get the feat Scribe Scroll, so ... I don't actually understand this comment.


Da Brain wrote:

NPC Wizard: "so, cost to cast a 6th level spell, with my caster level, plus the Material Components cost, plus Focus, plus Overage and Union Dues and Risk Insurance (have to handle the item), factor in a Spell Rarity Multiplier comes to... hmmm..."

Note that if the price strays to high, the NPC wizard is in danger of the PC researching the spell on his own (or disintegrating him and taking his spellbook) --

Independent Research: A wizard can also research a spell independently, duplicating an existing spell or creating an entirely new one. The cost to research a new spell, and the time required, are left up to GM discretion, but it should probably take at least 1 week and cost at least 1,000 gp per level of the spell to be researched. This should also require a number of Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana) checks.

http://legacy.aonprd.com/coreRulebook/magic.html#independent-research


I keep forgetting to ask: do the free spells take space in a spellbook? If so, what happens if the wizard in question doesn't have any room in his book?


Yqatuba wrote:
I keep forgetting to ask: do the free spells take space in a spellbook? If so, what happens if the wizard in question doesn't have any room in his book?

Yes, of course they take space (pages). If there's no space, the wizard has to buy another spellbook.


Yqatuba wrote:
Why wouldn't spellcasters always let people pay to copy from their spellbooks rather than make scrolls? Scrolls cost money to make, whereas letting someone copy doesn't cost a thing.

Sometimes the only source of a spell you can find is on a scroll. If all of the local wizards you know don't have Acid Arrow but you find a scroll with Acid Arrow on it, you use the scroll.

Or you travel for days to a larger town/city and hope you can find someone with a copy of Acid Arrow. There might even be someone in your current town but you either failed to find the copy (failed diplomacy check for gather information), or the person involved doesn't like you.


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they take up space. most gm will let you write them down in one spellbook for free (as coping a spell into a spell book as mentioned above has a material cost).

@Kitty "(or disintegrating him and taking his spellbook) "
if i may quote the creator of the Mathmagician (3ed joke prc ,look it up):

"coping from another wizard's spellbook is plagiarism, killing him for it is research'

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

For I the availability of spells to copy is loosely based on spellcasting services, with modifiers for spell rarity, danger, legality and so on. Generally, spells available for copying are 1-2 levels lower than the highest spellcasting service available.
I see "copying services" as something that magic shops (if you use them) will sell, but not renting a whole spellbook to bring home. They would rent a booklet with a single spell, a quiet room for copying, the writing implements and sell the required inks.
On the one hand, they will give you everything that was needed, on the other they will profit from everything that is needed.
Normally they would have the booklets only for common spells, but if you want a spell they have in a spellbook they purchased, but that is not available in booklet form, they would make a booklet to rent to you (but asking you partially cover the production cost, as probably they will not rent it again for some time).
Essentially, they would make it as safe as possible and as profitable as possible without irritating the client too much.


Tweedle-Dum wrote:
Yqatuba wrote:
Why wouldn't spellcasters always let people pay to copy from their spellbooks rather than make scrolls? Scrolls cost money to make, whereas letting someone copy doesn't cost a thing.

NPC wizard: "Here's the rental cost to borrow your spellbook to copy from it... and did I mention that I prepared plane shift today?"

No way would I let my spellbook out of my sight! Sure, I'll sell you a scroll, but no way am I going to let anyone even SEE my actual spellbook.

This is why casters have backup spellbooks. This is why they keep spellbooks they get as loot.

/cevah

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