APG Playtest Iconic Sketch Art


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

We we be getting the new sketch art and video commentary by Wayne Reynolds for the Investigator, Oracle, Swashbuckler and Witch with the Playtest release or around it?


I don't think a video commentary will happen (though I would love that), but I really wish to know if we get to see the iconic sketches as well.


Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Seems super likely we'll see those sketches in the playtest doc.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?

We've been told one of them is new, but not which one (my money is on Jirelle being replaced)


Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?

Only the witch iconic is confirmed that will not be changed, and was confirmed that at least one of the other three will change and that we already saw it the LOWG.


Kyrone wrote:
Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?
Only the witch iconic is confirmed that will not be changed, and was confirmed that at least one of the other three will change and that we already saw it the LOWG.

Is that the blonde holding a potion/extract on page 5? an investigator perhaps?


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Unicore wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?
Only the witch iconic is confirmed that will not be changed, and was confirmed that at least one of the other three will change and that we already saw it the LOWG.
Is that the blonde holding a potion/extract on page 5? an investigator perhaps?

The current popular theory is that the previous Shaman will be the new Oracle, because by the time that Paizo kinda gave that information away, the LOWG was not released yet but one blog post had that character.


From what we know of the new Oracle they're trying to make it a valid option for faiths that don't rely on worshiping a specific deity... which makes the old Oracle a terrible representative since she's basically just a Cleric of Sarenrae with extra steps. Replacing her with the Shaman iconic or making a new character entirely would be much preferred.

Liberty's Edge

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They said they're replacing one of them, and that the replacement will be someone we've seen before. Swashbuckler and Oracle are the two most likely candidates for such replacement, IMO.

Arachnofiend wrote:
From what we know of the new Oracle they're trying to make it a valid option for faiths that don't rely on worshiping a specific deity... which makes the old Oracle a terrible representative since she's basically just a Cleric of Sarenrae with extra steps. Replacing her with the Shaman iconic or making a new character entirely would be much preferred.

This isn't really true. Alahazra is a full-on Rahadoumi atheist (though a more tolerant one than most due to her situation), so her power set may be Sarenrae-adjacent, but her story very much isn't, and fits the 'not worshiping a specific deity' thing perfectly.

Shardra replacing her is still very possible, though.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
From what we know of the new Oracle they're trying to make it a valid option for faiths that don't rely on worshiping a specific deity... which makes the old Oracle a terrible representative since she's basically just a Cleric of Sarenrae with extra steps. Replacing her with the Shaman iconic or making a new character entirely would be much preferred.

I'd really appreciate that take on the oracle actually, my campaign setting could use it.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
This isn't really true. Alahazra is a full-on Rahadoumi atheist (though a more tolerant one than most due to her situation), so her power set may be Sarenrae-adjacent, but her story very much isn't, and fits the 'not worshiping a specific deity' thing perfectly.

After rereading I appear to have just made up details of her story out of nothing. Not sure how that happened.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Unicore wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?
Only the witch iconic is confirmed that will not be changed, and was confirmed that at least one of the other three will change and that we already saw it the LOWG.
Is that the blonde holding a potion/extract on page 5? an investigator perhaps?

No, that was Damiel, the old Alchemist iconic that lost his job to Fumbus. It's been mentioned by someone, somewhere on one of the streams that they forgot to warn the artists the iconic alchemist had change when they put in the art order.

You can tell it's true because there is no way I would have known who the iconic alchemist was, because I barely know the core iconics... or like any of the major Golarion lore. Also, you can google that dude (I just did to look up his name) and see the old pictures of him from PF1.

Assuming you weren't making some in-joke that went over my head. I'm super shocked that no one else has pointed this out yet; I basically never answer add value to lore discussions. I guess technically this is a "production hiccup funny story" answer and is more lore-adjacent, which is more my wheelhouse.


Hopefully the investigator, for an iconic he's very generic looking. My money would be on Alahazra though, her style is a little too epic compared to the low tier adventurer theme of the revised iconics.

Liberty's Edge

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ErichAD wrote:
Hopefully the investigator, for an iconic he's very generic looking. My money would be on Alahazra though, her style is a little too epic compared to the low tier adventurer theme of the revised iconics.

I strongly disagree. Quinn, the Investigator Iconic, looks awesome. If I was to pick a worst looking one of the options, it'd be Jirelle, the Swashbuckler. There are much better swashbuckler looks to be had...she doesn't even have a ridiculous but stylish hat.

Dataphiles

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
ErichAD wrote:
Hopefully the investigator, for an iconic he's very generic looking. My money would be on Alahazra though, her style is a little too epic compared to the low tier adventurer theme of the revised iconics.
I strongly disagree. Quinn, the Investigator Iconic, looks awesome. If I was to pick a worst looking one of the options, it'd be Jirelle, the Swashbuckler. There are much better swashbuckler looks to be had...she doesn't even have a ridiculous but stylish hat.

I'm telling you. Catfolk Swashbuckler would still be amazing. Puss in Boots herself. She could even be the Marquess de Carabas instead of letting a human have the title.


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At the moment we don't have a new edition half-elf or half-orc iconic. Might be nice to see one. If only one's new, we can't get both, sadly.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
ErichAD wrote:
Hopefully the investigator, for an iconic he's very generic looking. My money would be on Alahazra though, her style is a little too epic compared to the low tier adventurer theme of the revised iconics.
I strongly disagree. Quinn, the Investigator Iconic, looks awesome. If I was to pick a worst looking one of the options, it'd be Jirelle, the Swashbuckler. There are much better swashbuckler looks to be had...she doesn't even have a ridiculous but stylish hat.

I agree with Deadmanwalking, the investigator iconic is probably my favorite iconic!


He's a bit too "badass in a trench-coat" for me, complete with the slumped shoulder look that says it's his dads coat. I don't think he looks bad, just boring. The swashbuckler is much less generic, we didn't just get some archetypal Pathfinder musketeer or pirate here. And I'm a sucker for highly detailed art, the studs, the gloss on the leather, the draping of the cloak, it's all really well done. I'd be less excited if I was hired to do art with her in it though, as that's a bunch of extra work.

That said, opinions are like that, I'm glad the character works for some people.


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I like the bullfighter look of Jirelle and will be bummed if she is out. Excited to see who the new iconic is though!


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For what it's worth, having Shardra replace the Oracle iconic would also increase representation somewhat, while dropping Quinn would likely not help with that. Not necessarily top priority, but Paizo seems committed to have as much representation in their official products as they can and given the general concept of the new oracle, it wouldn't be a huge retcon to have Shardra as the iconic Oracle.

Liberty's Edge

This thread made me look up some iconics I was not familiar with. The result is that I was reminded how much I dislike Wayne Reynolds's art. Blech.

Silver Crusade

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You're free to go somewhere else instead of staying in a thread theorizing on the art he's making/made for the APG.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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flfontes wrote:
For what it's worth, having Shardra replace the Oracle iconic would also increase representation somewhat, while dropping Quinn would likely not help with that. Not necessarily top priority, but Paizo seems committed to have as much representation in their official products as they can and given the general concept of the new oracle, it wouldn't be a huge retcon to have Shardra as the iconic Oracle.

Shardra is one of my favorite iconics, mostly because of the amazing work Crystal did in building up her backstory and all that. As a result, I think it WOULD be a retcon to change Shardra to the iconic Oracle. I'd rather keep her in her role as the iconic Shaman... although if we get to a point where it becomes obvious that we won't be getting around to doing a 2nd edition Shaman... I might start looking at other ways to get her back in the spotlight.

THAT SAID: When we said folks have seen the new iconic already (for WHATEVER class they end up representing), that isn't meant to say we're transposing an iconic from a previous class. Damiel, for example, is still an alchemist. He won't be transistioning over to a different role.

Youv'e seen the new iconic before, but not in the context of that character playing the role of an iconic. Although it IS 100% backwards compatible. I'm pretty delighted with the choice. Can't wait for folks to find out! Feel free to hunt and peck around the boards for clues though.. not sure if we've dropped any hints or the like out there about the new one but we're only a few weeks away from the revelation of who it is.

Silver Crusade

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James Jacobs wrote:
flfontes wrote:
For what it's worth, having Shardra replace the Oracle iconic would also increase representation somewhat, while dropping Quinn would likely not help with that. Not necessarily top priority, but Paizo seems committed to have as much representation in their official products as they can and given the general concept of the new oracle, it wouldn't be a huge retcon to have Shardra as the iconic Oracle.
Shardra is one of my favorite iconics, mostly because of the amazing work Crystal did in building up her backstory and all that. As a result, I think it WOULD be a retcon to change Shardra to the iconic Oracle. I'd rather keep her in her role as the iconic Shaman... although if we get to a point where it becomes obvious that we won't be getting around to doing a 2nd edition Shaman... I might start looking at other ways to get her back in the spotlight.
Yay! Maybe a Spontaneous Primal Caster class?
Quote:

THAT SAID: When we said folks have seen the new iconic already (for WHATEVER class they end up representing), that isn't meant to say we're transposing an iconic from a previous class. Damiel, for example, is still an alchemist. He won't be transistioning over to a different role.

Youv'e seen the new iconic before, but not in the context of that character playing the role of an iconic. Although it IS 100% backwards compatible. I'm pretty delighted with the choice. Can't wait for folks to find out! Feel free to hunt and peck around the boards for clues though.. not sure if we've dropped any hints or the like out there about the new one but we're only a few weeks away from the revelation of who it is.

Ooo… wait, it's that Succubus Swashbuckler from Wrath isn't it? >_>


Huh, there goes my theory of the former Gunslinger as the new Swashbuckler.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh I hope it's not the swashbuckler hobgoblin general lady from Ironfang invasion that would just be insult to injury. Now if it ends up being the tian lady from hells rebels as a new investigator that would be a diffrent matter entirly.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

General Azaersi would be hi-f+##ing-larious.

Hmm, there was the wandering hobgoblin gunslinger though in the support articles...

Silver Crusade

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I wonder if Ameiko abandoned the throne...

Silver Crusade

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I'm actually gonna be kinda sad if Jirelle does get replaced, since her's is my favourite outfit.


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The 2E APG reportedly also introduces a dhampir ancestry. The most iconic dhampir who'd fit an APG class would be Larsa, a Royal Accuser of Caliphas, from Bloodbound. She was last statted as a level 6 rogue in Inner Sea Intrigue but might fit as a 2E investigator. That'd be a trip, all things considered.

On the same track, my next guess after that would be Ikiko, the tengu swashbuckler and jinx eater from the Friends and Foes section in A Song of Silver.


I mean, surely it's oughta be one of the core ancestries, right?
Unless Paizo does the unprecedented thing of an iconic being represented by a non-core ancestry, I think it's fair to stick to humans/dwarves/elves/halflings/gnomes/half-orcs/half-elves/goblins.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
RiverMesa wrote:

I mean, surely it's oughta be one of the core ancestries, right?

Unless Paizo does the unprecedented thing of an iconic being represented by a non-core ancestry, I think it's fair to stick to humans/dwarves/elves/halflings/gnomes/half-orcs/half-elves/goblins.

The thing is, even with that rule (which I hate), a bunch of former Ancestries are now Heritages.

So Human Dhampir/Tiefling/Aasimar would still be a Core Ancestry :3


Oh yeah, that's a good point.

...Any notable duskwalkers or changelings?


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Well great, now I'm back to hoping against hope that it's an orc.

...It's not gonna be an orc

Silver Crusade

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RiverMesa wrote:

Oh yeah, that's a good point.

...Any notable duskwalkers or changelings?

... there’s a Changeling Investigator working for the Sleepless Agency that was introduced in Song of Silver (Pathfinder 100, the extra NPCs for previous APs section).

I don’t think we’ve seen any notable Duskwalker NPCs yet.


I kinda doubt it's going to be a well established character from previous stories? Fumbus wasn't. I think it's more likely that we've just seen art of the person in books.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:

Well great, now I'm back to hoping against hope that it's an orc.

...It's not gonna be an orc

Never underestimate an Orc Investigator.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
I kinda doubt it's going to be a well established character from previous stories? Fumbus wasn't. I think it's more likely that we've just seen art of the person in books.

*nods*

This is likely, but everything is on the table at the moment.


PFW1-K1 wrote:
On the same track, my next guess after that would be Ikiko, the tengu swashbuckler and jinx eater from the Friends and Foes section in A Song of Silver.

Is that the same Tengu Jinx Eater shown in LOWG on page 67?

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Pumpkinhead11 wrote:
PFW1-K1 wrote:
On the same track, my next guess after that would be Ikiko, the tengu swashbuckler and jinx eater from the Friends and Foes section in A Song of Silver.
Is that the same Tengu Jinx Eater shown in LOWG on page 67?

No, completely different outfits. The LOWG also has scarring(?) on their beak.

Silver Crusade

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TIL Tengu are Medium.


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Wait! Maybe Amaya Kaijitsu? In A Song of Silver she is listed as a Detective Bard. It would fit her better to make her an investigator since she doesn't feel like a spell caster as much as an inquisitive, intellectual, nighttime combatant.

Silver Crusade

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Ooo


More Amaya would rock in general, but I wonder if she's too connected to be an iconic. It'd always gnaw at the back of my mind that the next person in line to the throne of Minkai is in some random adventuring party at some random location.


Gunslinger/Swashbuckler Iconic swap still has sense in that weapon-specific abilities are Archetype fodder in 2E not distinct class material, but single Iconic can "retrain" with Gun/Melee focus for different context without changing essence. And GS/SB Iconics seemed very similar except GS Iconic had stronger story/character of the 2.

Another class Iconic that seems prone to merging with Swashbuckler is Vigilante, Aric/Red Raven. Vigilante is another that doesn't seem standalone class material anymore in 2E, with Secret Identity abilities more like an Archetype or even General/Skill Feats.

...Glad to hear it sounds like within Paizo, 2E Shaman is currently assumed to happen, if not necessarily scheduled yet...


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I agree that the Vigilante would work as an Archetype, like they did with Cavalier. About half the abilities represented by the Vigilante class in P1e were making it like another class (avenger: fighter, stalker: rogue, warlock arch.: wizard, zealot arch.: inquisitor, etc.) This fits into the class feat design of P2e with the Dedication Feat opening up those new feats for any class.

So masked swashbucklers would be on the plate beside hooded archers and secret cabal leaders. Add more Vigilante archetype Feats, and more options appear without a single new mechanic being required.

Back on topic, I will miss Jirelle if she is the one replaced. Her outfit is utterly amazing.


Vigilante being an archetype seems eminently logical. We already have some feats that fit the mold.


Chief Cook and Bottlewasher wrote:
At the moment we don't have a new edition half-elf or half-orc iconic. Might be nice to see one. If only one's new, we can't get both, sadly.

This was one reason why I thought a Jirelle/Lirianne swap made sense, since they are both half-elves... If they were to replace Jirelle, doing so with another half-elf would maintain representation of that Core Ancestry/Heritage. Of course, a half-orc might also fit, but I think Imrijka (sp?) is strongly characterized half-orc Inquisitor iconic which I'm sure they can find a place for (future Cleric Doctrine?) so half-elf situation seems most in need of filling. I think there is also opportunity in revamping Lirianne to have stronger Garundi/Nex identity.

Relatedly, assuming Quinn is investigator iconic, I'm curious how they present his identity in 2E... In 1E he seems to officially be "Garundi" despite nothing in his backstory ever mentioning any Garundi culture and by all accounts seeming 100% integrated in Galtian culture as noble family etc. If Paizo wish to get away from essentialist "racial" categorization, and lean into linguistic-cultural defintion of ethnicity, Quinn should probably be "Taldan" by that metric.


Unicore wrote:
Kyrone wrote:
Redblade8 wrote:
Are the Iconics for these 4 classes the same as in 1E?
Only the witch iconic is confirmed that will not be changed, and was confirmed that at least one of the other three will change and that we already saw it the LOWG.
Is that the blonde holding a potion/extract on page 5? an investigator perhaps?

Isn't that the alchemist from 1e?

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