Handwraps of Mighty Blows and Bite attacks

[Tender Tendrils]

So, I am looking at the idea of making a biting focused goblin, and an looking for ways to make the bite attack viable as the character levels.

The relevant heritage;
Razortooth Goblin
Your family’s teeth are formidable weapons. You gain a jaws unarmed attack that deals 1d6 piercing damage. Your jaws are in the brawling group and have the finesse and unarmed trait.

So, the main issue is that weapons give you access to striking runes, which unarmed attacks don't get - a monk solves this with handwraps of Mighty Blows;

Handwraps of Mighty Blows
As you invest these embroidered strips of cloth, you must meditate and slowly wrap them around your hands. These handwraps have weapon runes etched into them to give your unarmed attacks the benefits of those runes, making your unarmed attacks work like magic weapons. For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks and increase the damage of your unarmed attacks from one weapon die to two (normally 2d4 instead of 1d4, but if your fists have a different weapon damage die or you have other unarmed attacks, use two of that die size instead).

You can upgrade, add, and transfer runes to and from the handwraps just as you would for a weapon, and you can attach talismans to the handwraps. Treat the handwraps as melee weapons of the brawling group with light Bulk for these purposes. Property runes apply only when they would be applicable to the unarmed attack you’re using. For example, a property that must be applied to a slashing weapon wouldn’t function when you attacked with a fist, but you would gain its benefits if you attacked with a claw or some other slashing unarmed attack.

It seems to me like there is nothing specifying that the handwraps only work on specific types of unarmed attacks? So theoretically just wearing them makes you better at doing damage with bite attacks?

Can anyone find any issues with this? There are passing mentions of fists but they just seem to be passing mentions for examples sake rather than a requirement.

I think with my players I would rule that it works, just because I want them to be able to play niche options like razortooth goblins or lizardfolk or animal barbarians and to feel competitive with other characters, but it would be nicer to do it with the full backing of the rules without having to write a houserule.

[Mellored]

I see no rule or reason to not allow it for all unarmed attacks.

[Qaianna]

Looks good to me. Technically they'd work on a kick or a headbutt too. And I think the whole point is to keep those natural weapons viable without the game effectively going 'LOLnope arm or die'.

[lemeres]

Qaianna wrote:

Looks good to me. Technically they'd work on a kick or a headbutt too. And I think the whole point is to keep those natural weapons viable without the game effectively going 'LOLnope arm or die'.

Especially given the fact that bites are pretty much the superior attacks, usually. Most of the options I've seen give the bite at least one step higher in damage dice- which actually means a lot now.

[Bandw2]

you're not like hitting people with the arm wraps to do more damage, they just make your strikes with your body more accurate and damaging.

[Gisher]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

So, I am looking at the idea of making a biting focused goblin, and an looking for ways to make the bite attack viable as the character levels.

The relevant heritage;
Razortooth Goblin
Your family’s teeth are formidable weapons. You gain a jaws unarmed attack that deals 1d6 piercing damage. Your jaws are in the brawling group and have the finesse and unarmed trait.

So, the main issue is that weapons give you access to striking runes, which unarmed attacks don't get - a monk solves this with handwraps of Mighty Blows;

Handwraps of Mighty Blows
As you invest these embroidered strips of cloth, you must meditate and slowly wrap them around your hands. These handwraps have weapon runes etched into them to give your unarmed attacks the benefits of those runes, making your unarmed attacks work like magic weapons. For example, +1 striking handwraps of mighty blows would give you a +1 item bonus to attack rolls with your unarmed attacks and increase the damage of your unarmed attacks from one weapon die to two (normally 2d4 instead of 1d4, but if your fists have a different weapon damage die or you have other unarmed attacks, use two of that die size instead).

You can upgrade, add, and transfer runes to and from the handwraps just as you would for a weapon, and you can attach talismans to the handwraps. Treat the handwraps as melee weapons of the brawling group with light Bulk for these purposes. Property runes apply only when they would be applicable to the unarmed attack you’re using. For example, a property that must be applied to a slashing weapon wouldn’t function when you attacked with a fist, but you would gain its benefits if you attacked with a claw or some other slashing unarmed attack.

It seems to me like there is nothing specifying that the handwraps only work on specific types of unarmed attacks? So theoretically just wearing them makes you better at doing damage with bite attacks?

Can anyone find any issues with this? There are passing mentions of fists but they just...

I changed the bold phrases. It seems clear to me that these can affect all unarmed strikes. Also Magic Fang is getting errated so it can be cast on yourself. Nice if you can get it.

[Tender Tendrils]

So this leads on to the next relevant question - if you get granted the same type of unarmed attack from two different sources, and they both give access to feats that reference them, do you have to choose each time you attack which set of feats apply, or do they all apply?

For example, if I make an animal instinct (wolf) barbarian razortooth goblin, and take the fang sharpener feat, do I have;
Two jaws unarmed attacks to choose from, one of which has the trip trait, the other of which does persistent bleed damage

Or

One jaws unarmed attack, which has the trip trait and does persistent bleed damage.

[Blave]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

So this leads on to the next relevant question - if you get granted the same type of unarmed attack from two different sources, and they both give access to feats that reference them, do you have to choose each time you attack which set of feats apply, or do they all apply?

For example, if I make an animal instinct (wolf) barbarian razortooth goblin, and take the fang sharpener feat, do I have;
Two jaws unarmed attacks to choose from, one of which has the trip trait, the other of which does persistent bleed damage

Or

One jaws unarmed attack, which has the trip trait and does persistent bleed damage.

You'd have two jaws attacks, each with its own traits and damage die size.

[Tender Tendrils]

Blave wrote:

Tender Tendrils wrote:

So this leads on to the next relevant question - if you get granted the same type of unarmed attack from two different sources, and they both give access to feats that reference them, do you have to choose each time you attack which set of feats apply, or do they all apply?

For example, if I make an animal instinct (wolf) barbarian razortooth goblin, and take the fang sharpener feat, do I have;
Two jaws unarmed attacks to choose from, one of which has the trip trait, the other of which does persistent bleed damage

Or

One jaws unarmed attack, which has the trip trait and does persistent bleed damage.

You'd have two jaws attacks, each with its own traits and damage die size.

That was my first thought, but was hoping someone had found something somewhere that said otherwise.

Its annoying if it works that way as the barbarian subclass that is focused on biting should probably work better on an ancestry & heritage combo that is also focused on biting.

[Samurai]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

So this leads on to the next relevant question - if you get granted the same type of unarmed attack from two different sources, and they both give access to feats that reference them, do you have to choose each time you attack which set of feats apply, or do they all apply?

For example, if I make an animal instinct (wolf) barbarian razortooth goblin, and take the fang sharpener feat, do I have;
Two jaws unarmed attacks to choose from, one of which has the trip trait, the other of which does persistent bleed damage

Or

One jaws unarmed attack, which has the trip trait and does persistent bleed damage.

The Animal Instinct rage has the Morph and transmutation traits. So I would rule that during your rage you can only access your wolf jaw attack, and outside of rage, you can only access your regular bite. You'd have to read each feat and see if it specifies "this only applies to your Goblin heritage bite" or "this only applies while raging", but if it is neither and just says "your unarmed attack" or "your jaws attacks" then it probably could be used with both.

[K1]

Bandw2 wrote:

you're not like hitting people with the arm wraps to do more damage, they just make your strikes with your body more accurate and damaging.

Totally agree.

We must consider also that it is something meant for monks, and monks don't only rely on fists.

[Gisher]

K1 wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

you're not like hitting people with the arm wraps to do more damage, they just make your strikes with your body more accurate and damaging.

Totally agree.

We must consider also that it is something meant for monks, and monks don't only rely on fists.

Very insightful. Flurry would be very complicated if the wraps only work on fists.

[someweirdguy]

Tender Tendrils wrote:

Blave wrote:

Tender Tendrils wrote:

So this leads on to the next relevant question - if you get granted the same type of unarmed attack from two different sources, and they both give access to feats that reference them, do you have to choose each time you attack which set of feats apply, or do they all apply?

For example, if I make an animal instinct (wolf) barbarian razortooth goblin, and take the fang sharpener feat, do I have;
Two jaws unarmed attacks to choose from, one of which has the trip trait, the other of which does persistent bleed damage

Or

One jaws unarmed attack, which has the trip trait and does persistent bleed damage.

You'd have two jaws attacks, each with its own traits and damage die size.

That was my first thought, but was hoping someone had found something somewhere that said otherwise.

Its annoying if it works that way as the barbarian subclass that is focused on biting should probably work better on an ancestry & heritage combo that is also focused on biting.

Technically, you shouldn't be able to use your Goblin bite while Raging as an Animal Instinct Barbarian that gets a Bite attack because your Rage gets the Morph trait. That means you're morphing your head into an animalistic version and wouldn't have your normal bite.

[Szajbus23]

I'm gonna create Lizardman Barbarian with Animal Instinct (Snake). I wonder if Handwraps of Mighty Blows will work on all my unarmed attacks?
From all post above I can assume that it will work for my claws and tail whip, but I don't know if it will work for Fangs after morphiong during rage.

[Grankless]

Handwraps will apply to ALL unarmed attacks you have.