Kinda all in the title: does Dubious Knowledge go off on a critical failure? Seems a bit ridiculous to me that a feat anyone can take at 2nd level negates the penalty for critically failing, especially since the whole point of critically failing Recall Knowledge was to take away “might as well roll since there’s no penalty for failure.” (I know there’s technically a penalty, but that’s not the point)
Dubious knowledge only affects what happens when you fail a knowledge check. Crit failure still works as normal.
Kinda all in the title: does Dubious Knowledge go off on a critical failure? Seems a bit ridiculous to me that a feat anyone can take at 2nd level negates the penalty for critically failing, especially since the whole point of critically failing Recall Knowledge was to take away “might as well roll since there’s no penalty for failure.” (I know there’s technically a penalty, but that’s not the point)
Only on a failure, also remember that it is a secret roll.
I would say a critical failure is still a failure so it would trigger. The same way anything that triggers on a success would also trigger on a critical success.
Hard disagree on that.
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I would say a critical failure is still a failure so it would trigger. The same way anything that triggers on a success would also trigger on a critical success.Hard disagree on that.
During the playtest, Paizo wrote critical success as same as success but better and critical failure as same as failure but worse. That is why the playtest wrote Success, Critical Success, Failure, Critical Failure as the order. However, in the actual PF2, Paizo wrote Critical Success, Success, Failure, and Critical Failure as the order and they appear to spell out each result, leaving a blank only for nothing happens, not for same as the above.
For example, the degrees of success for High Jump on page 242 are:
Critical Success Increase the maximum vertical distance to 8 feet, or increase the maximum vertical distance to 5 feet and maximum horizontal distance to 10 feet.
Success Increase the maximum vertical distance to 5 feet.
Failure You Leap normally.
Critical Failure You don’t Leap at all, and instead you fall prone in your space.
The result of failure is not copied in critical failure.
Let's look at at actual wording.
RECALL KNOWLEDGE [one-action], page 239
Concentrate, Secret
You attempt a skill check to try to remember a bit of knowledge regarding a topic related to that skill. The GM determines the DCs for such checks and which skills apply.
Critical Success You recall the knowledge accurately and gain additional information or context.
Success You recall the knowledge accurately or gain a useful clue about your current situation.
Critical Failure You recall incorrect information or gain an erroneous or misleading clue.
Notice that critical success spells out, "You recall the knowledge accurately," even though success says that too.
DUBIOUS KNOWLEDGE Feat 1, page 260
General, Skill
Prerequisites trained in a skill with the Recall Knowledge action
You’re a treasure trove of information, but not all of it comes from reputable sources. When you fail a Recall Knowledge check using any skill, you learn a bit of true knowledge and a bit of erroneous knowledge, but you don’t have any way to differentiate which is which.
If a critical failure everything from the Failure option, then what would Critical Failure give? One correct piece of information and two wrong pieces? Combining the new failure result and the old critical failure result is not clear. I believe that that is because they are not supposed to be combined.
However, this does leave the oddity that a failed Recall Knowledge check with Dubious Knowledge gives two pieces of information, while success and critical failure give one piece. That does make the failure option stand out despite the secret roll. I could see a house rule about giving two pieces of false information for a critical failure. However, at my table, I figure that the extra indicator is just a benefit of the feat.