Reach for animal companion


Advice


Is there a feat or spell or some magic item that can increase reach of animal companion, other than pre-errata Evolved Companion or Lunge?


enlarging it (i think there is an 'enlarge animal' spell out there, companions with share spells can get enlarge person castled by the master if he's humanoid). or long-arm spell with share spells etc


By RAW, the magic item Dire Collar grants reach. Keep in mind that animal companions can take the feat Extra Item Slot which means that any magic item that would let a PC gain reach an animal companion can use to gain reach even if it occupies a slot said animal companion doesn't normally have.

Which opens them up to things like the Juggernaut's Pauldrons


Dip Primal Companion Hunter.

Grand Lodge

Share spells mean any spell that can increase size or reach works. Long arm, form of the dragon etc.


if you wanted to get really crazy you could even do.

Anthropomorphic Animal+Opalescent White Pyramid+any reach weapon

edit: on a side note, I would like to point out that the spell animal growth doesn't necessarily grant the creature reach since it merely increases the animal's size by one size category. Any animal companion with the body type long, doesn't gain reach going from medium to large. The only reason enlarge person grants reach is because its specifically called out in the spell as something the recipient gains. The reality is enlarge person probably shouldn't grant reach any more then animal growth does. Hence my earlier statement of "by raw". Also, obviously spells that enhance a single body part (eg. Long arm) will not work if the animal companion doesn't possess said body part (eg. a constrictor snake).


Grandlounge wrote:
Share spells mean any spell that can increase size or reach works. Long arm, form of the dragon etc.

Almost.

Share spells will allow any spell from a list of a class that includes animal companions.

This is important for dipping into classes that may not. You cant share these spells.

Grand Lodge

The above rationale only applies to large creatures.

As most of the popular animals become large and grow to huge or larger with magic they do have their natural reach extend by the natural reach column of the Creature Sizes Chart.

It is also a bit more nuanced as I understand it. The rationale goes like this: stat block for animal companions don't include reach, animal companions have different stats than the animal they represent so you can infer they get a reach increase based in the animals they represent. But, paizo published sample animal companions and a large constrictor has a 10ft reach so I would say that argument goes out the window.

PFS has enlarged stat blocks that gain reach.


Cavall wrote:

Almost.

Share spells will allow any spell from a list of a class that includes animal companions.

This is important for dipping into classes that may not. You can't share these spells.

Do you know if that includes archetypes and/or domains?

For example alchemists don't normally gain animal companions but one of their archetypes does.

Alternatively a cleric with the Animal Domain gains an animal companion. So does that mean all cleric spells are automatically included?

Grand Lodge

Cavall wrote:
Grandlounge wrote:
Share spells mean any spell that can increase size or reach works. Long arm, form of the dragon etc.

Almost.

Share spells will allow any spell from a list of a class that includes animal companions.

This is important for dipping into classes that may not. You cant share these spells.

I tend to write things assume people will read the specifics of the power before using it but completeness is better.

So for clarity. The spell can have a target of you, and it can be a spell that would not normally effect the animal subtype, it must come from a class that grants an animal companion archetype/domain/revelations/bloddlines can help if you want to stack odd buffs.


Grandlounge wrote:
Cavall wrote:
Grandlounge wrote:
Share spells mean any spell that can increase size or reach works. Long arm, form of the dragon etc.

Almost.

Share spells will allow any spell from a list of a class that includes animal companions.

This is important for dipping into classes that may not. You cant share these spells.

I tend to write things assume people will read the specifics of the power before using it but completeness is better.

So for clarity. The spell can have a target of you, and it can be a spell that would not normally effect the animal subtype, it must come from a class that grants an animal companion archetype/domain/revelations/bloddlines can help if you want to stack odd buffs.

That would be most of the spells in the game. Since the Animal Domain would make all cleric spells eligible and fey bloodline would make all sorcerer/wizard spells eligible.


Hmm, I should of been more specific - something that will give it reach for its bite attack and without increasing size.

Also, if an animal have Amulet of Mighty fists with Dancing quality, does this mean it's jaw can fly off its face and ... uugh.


DarkPhoenixx wrote:
Hmm, I should of been more specific - something that will give it reach for its bite attack and without increasing size.

hmm... that does narrow your options. Outside of the feats you've listed there's Combat Patrol.

Also, the spell Anthropomorphic Animal would allow an animal companion to use a blue scarf. Since IIRC bite attacks are considered light weapons and they are absolutely piercing weapons.

edit: as for amulet of mighty fists no. Because the magic item specifies "Alternatively, this amulet can grant melee weapon special abilities, so long as they can be applied to unarmed attacks." So, it couldn't have the dancing quality to begin with.


Blue Scarf sounds neat. Too bad it does not count as slot for the purpose of Extra Item Slot feat.

Hmm, maybe Monkey Belt will work.

Grand Lodge

Sharding weapon property is not reach but it let's you attack from further way.

Silver Crusade

Besides the various methods listed above, the axe-beak has reach at 4th level, when it becomes large. The PF devs failed to transcribe the reach trait to any Animal Companions from the base animal. This is clearly an oversight.


LordKailas wrote:
Anthropomorphic Animal+Opalescent White Pyramid+any reach weapon

Note that you'd have to buy the full-power 10,000gp ioun for carte blanche proficiency, as the much cheaper cracked version simply treats a weapon as a martial weapon (and Anthropomorphic Animal does not bestow weapon proficiencies).


LordKailas wrote:
Cavall wrote:

Almost.

Share spells will allow any spell from a list of a class that includes animal companions.

This is important for dipping into classes that may not. You can't share these spells.

Do you know if that includes archetypes and/or domains?

For example alchemists don't normally gain animal companions but one of their archetypes does.

Alternatively a cleric with the Animal Domain gains an animal companion. So does that mean all cleric spells are automatically included?

One can infer from the use of "grants" not "had the option to grant in any capacity" that the class must have it. Therefore in the case of an alchemist (to use your example) yes, you could, so long as you took that archetype. If you didnt have that archetype then the class doesnt grant you that option therefore you can't use that spell.

Therefore if you had the Animal domain, your class would grant it. If you had the death and fire domains, it would not.

You do not receive the benefit of an option you're not taking.


Cavall wrote:

One can infer from the use of "grants" not "had the option to grant in any capacity" that the class must have it. Therefore in the case of an alchemist (to use your example) yes, you could, so long as you took that archetype. If you didnt have that archetype then the class doesnt grant you that option therefore you can't use that spell.

Therefore if you had the Animal domain, your class would grant it. If you had the death and fire domains, it would not.

You do not receive the benefit of an option you're not taking.

Thinking about it further I think you're correct that was the intent. In which case it would of been clearer had they said "Spells cast in this way must come from a class that grants you an animal companion.". The current wording makes it sound like a generalized statement instead of something specific to the character. I'd previously read it as a generalized statement, as a sort of catchall for anytime you're casting a spell you wouldn't normally have access too, like UMD to cast a spell from a scroll.

Hence why I wondered if that included things like domains and archetypes that grant animal companions. I appreciate your response.


Slim Jim wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Anthropomorphic Animal+Opalescent White Pyramid+any reach weapon
Note that you'd have to buy the full-power 10,000gp ioun for carte blanche proficiency, as the much cheaper cracked version simply treats a weapon as a martial weapon (and Anthropomorphic Animal does not bestow weapon proficiencies).

The flawed version grants proficiency and is only double the cost of the cracked version. Provided of course that you're ok taking a slight hit to dex. But I agree, in general it's not a great option and only makes sense if your animal companion is something that normally only gets a bite attack.


LordKailas wrote:
...and only makes sense if your animal companion is something that normally only gets a bite attack.

Primary gore attacks (without a secondary) are best, as the horn or tusks can be fitted with tusk blades -- and it's kosher to stack with an Amulet of Mighty Fists (to the envy of monks everywhere still cheesed off about the old cestus nerf).


Slim Jim wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
...and only makes sense if your animal companion is something that normally only gets a bite attack.
Primary gore attacks (without a secondary) are best, as the horn or tusks can be fitted with tusk blades -- and it's kosher to stack with an Amulet of Mighty Fists (to the envy of monks everywhere still cheesed off about the old cestus nerf).

I was referring to this line

Anthropomorphic Animal wrote:
It loses its natural attacks except for bite (if it had one as an animal), all types of movement other than its land speed, and special attacks that rely on its natural attacks.

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