The Wight stuff: question about the Wight variants


Rules Questions


Ok, so the Dust Wight variant (+1 CR): "and when it hits a foe with its slam attack, causes the creature struck to become dehydrated if this victim fails a Fortitude save (same DC as the wight’s energy drain attack)."

Does this dehydration effect:

1) stack with the wight's normal (1 Level, DC 14) energy drain, requiring 2 Saves for each of its slam attacks
OR
2) replace the wight's normal energy drain entirely as a different effect
OR
3) be selectable on or off with the normal energy drain as something it can select from

My guess is that its not #2, as another Wight variant, the Salt Wight, specifically says, "Salt wights have the desiccating touch special attack, which replaces a normal wight’s energy drain attack. But its also not spelled out like another variant, the Frost Wight which specifically states 'in addition to'; "Frost wights have the cold subtype and their slam attacks deal 1d6 cold damage in addition to the normal effects."

Related question: its possible to combine variants so long as their ending CR 'fits'; in my case this would be for a 6th Level Cohort and based upon both backstory as well as what has happened the past year In Game, the perfect cohort is Mist & Dust Cairn Wight. Which sounds wacky but fits roleplay wise as well as math-wise (CR 4 for a Cairn Wight + 1 CR for Dust +1 CR for Mist) assuming variants can legally be combined like this.

Any help would be appreciated!

Scarab Sages

As far as the ability goes, I'd say #1. I don't think any variant would go up in CR if it replaces energy drain with dehydration, so more than likely it'll add on to the normal effects. But regarding the multi-variant thing, I don't know if that's a legal thing. Granted, you can pretty much do whatever you want if its a home game and GM approves, but I don't think its a normal thing written into the books. And honestly, I feel like Paizo really messed up the CR calc. on Wights. My entire 7th level party, plus a 5th level Kobold Rogue/Barbarian (Long Story XD) got wiped out by a single Wight. With a cleric and two blaster casters, and all of the melees. Both variants might not be necessary if you're trying to match CR XD.


1.

(Aside: How on earth did a 7th-level party get wiped out by a single wight?)


Either clueless players or a pretty clever GM, I'd think.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
blahpers wrote:

1.

(Aside: How on earth did a 7th-level party get wiped out by a single wight?)

I really, really, really hope it wasn't on Earth.

;-)


blahpers wrote:

1.

(Aside: How on earth did a 7th-level party get wiped out by a single wight?)

"Long Story XD"

On a serious note, any other thoughts to this specific example or multi-variant monsters in general? I'm surprised its not a 'legal' thing since it would seem to be a creative way to create challenging encounters through Paizo's own material.


Can you please link to where you found the Dust/Mist Wight Variants? I cannot find them on Archives of Nethys; I do find them added on for the d20pfsrd entry, however it does not source where these variant options were added from, (most of it is from the Bestiary 1 entry). I am wondering if the site included 3PP in this entry, (it often does), which would explain why there is a question mark over how these variants function. The Frost Wright is an official variant which is why it is worded more clearly.


Looks like the OP asked in reddit first, and indicated it is from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Undead Revisited:.

I think it is #2, as the Frost Wight does cold in addition to the normal effects.

The regular Wight's attack is: Melee slam +4 (1d4+1 plus energy drain)
The Dust Wight's slam causes the creature struck to become dehydrated if this victim fails a Fortitude save (same DC as the wight’s energy drain attack), which to me replaces the energy drain since it tells you what the slam does. A case could be made for loosing the damage as well.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Cevah wrote:

Looks like the OP asked in reddit first, and indicated it is from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Undead Revisited:.

I think it is #2, as the Frost Wight does cold in addition to the normal effects.

The regular Wight's attack is: Melee slam +4 (1d4+1 plus energy drain)
The Dust Wight's slam causes the creature struck to become dehydrated if this victim fails a Fortitude save (same DC as the wight’s energy drain attack), which to me replaces the energy drain since it tells you what the slam does. A case could be made for loosing the damage as well.

/cevah

Quote:
Dust Wight (+1 CR): Just as wights that rise from the dead in frozen environments can become infused with the dangerous qualities of their harsh environs, dust wights carry in their desiccated, crumbling frames the scorching punishment of the searing desert. These wights are typically found in desert tombs or ruins, and have fiery orange eyes and very little f lesh save for leathery scraps clinging to their bones. A dust wight gains DR 5/ bludgeoning, and when it hits a foe with its slam attack, causes the creature struck to become dehydrated if this victim fails a Fortitude save (same DC as the wight’s energy drain attack). A dehydrated foe becomes fatigued (or exhausted if already fatigued).

It gets a DR, and one that is relatively good as most bludgeoning weapons do less damage than cutting/slashing. The dehydration part is annoying as there aren't clear rules about how you remove it. I suppose drinking enough liquids and waiting some time will work, or alternatively drinking liquids and a lesser restoration if you are in a hurry.

For similarity with how starvation and thirst rules work, I wouldn't have restoration alone work, but without actual rules it is all an in the hands of the GM.
The dehydrated part works only if the target fails a save when he is hit, while the negative level is always applied and has a save to remove it.

Considering all the above points I would say that it maintain the energy drain and the dehydrated effect is added to it.

The description of the alternate version could be better.

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