Wild Order level 12


Advice


My friend is a wild order druid and is wondering how capable his character will be at lvl 12 assuming he has all the magical items to enhance his attacks to what they should be at level 12. Going by that how much damage would he be doing as a T-Rex for example. He's trying to compare damage against my Warpriest. Thanks for the help all.


Tyrannosaurus
18 base+2 item = 20 hit.
12 level+4 str/dex (if you boosted it)+4 expert + 2 item = 22
2d12+6

Cleric
12level+4 str+4 expert+2 item = 22
2d8+4

If you boosted Str/dex, druid is ahead.
Otherwise, looks pretty close to tied.

Think I'm doing that right.


Interesting, seems like level 13 he starts taking over with the damage bonus of +15. Even at level 12 if he went Stegosaurus he would be doing 4D8+6 that's pretty significantly better,no? Had a question on all the dinosaur forms and animal forms there Athletics modifier is listed, are they able to perform combat manuevers such as Grab or Trip?


Atalius wrote:
Interesting, seems like level 13 he starts taking over with the damage bonus of +15. Even at level 12 if he went Stegosaurus he would be doing 4D8+6 that's pretty significantly better,no? Had a question on all the dinosaur forms and animal forms there Athletics modifier is listed, are they able to perform combat manuevers such as Grab or Trip?

I suppose that depends on how you interpret the bolded bit of this bullet point, since Grapple and Trip (and Shove, and Disarm, to cover all the Athletics-based combat maneuvers) all have the Attack trait. They also have Requirement: You have at least one hand free if you want to be a stickler.

Dinosaur Form, p. 329-330 wrote:
One or more unarmed melee attacks specific to the battle form you choose, which are the only attacks you can use. You're trained with them. Your attack modifier is +16, and your damage bonus is +9. These attacks are Strength based (for the purpose of the enfeebled condition, for example). If your unarmed attack modifier is higher, you can use it instead.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't believe you can get item bonuses.

Mellored wrote:

Tyrannosaurus

18 base+2 item = 20 hit

If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.


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Ravingdork wrote:

I don't believe you can get item bonuses.

Mellored wrote:

Tyrannosaurus

18 base+2 item = 20 hit
If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.

But you have the option to use your own attack modifier instead of the special statistic of the spell. So if you use your own modifier, item bonusses should be fine.

It is not crystal clear if that is the correct way to read it and needs some clarification.

But if you use the spells statistic because your own modifier is crap, then you can't get an item bonus, that's for sure.


Ravingdork wrote:

I don't believe you can get item bonuses.

Mellored wrote:

Tyrannosaurus

18 base+2 item = 20 hit
If you take on a battle form with a polymorph spell, the special statistics can be adjusted only by circumstance bonuses, status bonuses, and penalties.

You are correct. That should be 18.

So you would basically always you your own modifier, unless you dumped them.


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Atalius wrote:
My friend is a wild order druid and is wondering how capable his character will be at lvl 12 assuming he has all the magical items to enhance his attacks to what they should be at level 12. Going by that how much damage would he be doing as a T-Rex for example. He's trying to compare damage against my Warpriest. Thanks for the help all.

How "capable", and "damage output" are not the same thing. Now, more than ever with the 3-action economy, there are so many different ways to be a "capable" member of a party, and damage output doesn't really capture it. Also, is the assumption, a party situation, or solo?

I guess the question is really, what is the theoretical damage output of character A and character B? Something like that.

Anyway, don't mean to derail, I just think if your friend is looking for "actual" capability, I don't think you should necessarily look at damage output.


So if the druid can't benefit from item bonuses what exactly do the Handwraps of Mighty Blows +1 striking do in dino form?


Sounds like we need an FAQ on this one


Wild Shape:

When you
choose to use your own attack modifer while polymorphed
instead of the form’s default attack modifer, you gain a +2
status bonus to your attack rolls

So it should be +22 when using wild shape (16 prof +4 str +2 status).


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Youre only allowed to do that if your bonus is higher it would seem. It is uncclear what you do when your bonus is equal to, rather than higher. You're simply excluded from the increase I guess?


Hopefully in the errata they clarify what you can include in your bonus (whether item bonus is included or excluded)


if Handwraps of Mighty Blows apply, he would be doing significantly more damage then a Warpriest of the same level.


Atalius wrote:
if Handwraps of Mighty Blows apply, he would be doing significantly more damage then a Warpriest of the same level.

Keep in mind, the warprist can do more stuff. Heal + Strike (+Divine Weapon) + Raise Shield + Block for instance. Maybe trip, grab, or cast a forbidding ward.

Wild Druid can only Strike. No spells, no shield. (Though the THP is kind of like blocking).


Mellored wrote:
Atalius wrote:
if Handwraps of Mighty Blows apply, he would be doing significantly more damage then a Warpriest of the same level.

Keep in mind, the warprist can do more stuff. Heal + Strike (+Divine Weapon) + Raise Shield + Block for instance. Maybe trip, grab, or cast a forbidding ward.

Wild Druid can only Strike. No spells, no shield. (Though the THP is kind of like blocking).

Very true, good point. When you put it that way it seems like they probably should be able to use those Handwraps, otherwise Wild Shape would be kind of weak.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
Youre only allowed to do that if your bonus is higher it would seem. It is uncclear what you do when your bonus is equal to, rather than higher. You're simply excluded from the increase I guess?

I'm pretty sure the polymorph spells ought to say you can use your own bonus regardless, they just specify "if it's higher" so as not to potentially confuse new players. There's no way that such a restrictive application of Wild Shape's status bonus is intentional. In fact, if I recall correctly, there are some levels where the only way to get a higher attack modifier as a Druid than what the spell gives you is to already factor in the +2.


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For once I hope the things a little bird told me are right.

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