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I think it is probably intended that druids are not supposed to be able to use shields for the same level of protection as martial characters.If that were the case, I'd have rather just they not gotten the Shield Block feat for free. I'm fine with wooden shields being less good than metal shields, just like hide armor is inferior to heavier armors. But typically this means you spend your time looking for that uncommon Dragonhide Breastplate or whatever.
Also, you can have a fighter or Warpriest/Redeemer Champion of Gozreh that multiclasses into Druid for flavor reasons; they'd then be bound by the no metal armor/shields anathema.
It's questionable whether an MCD Druid picks up the foundational anathema of being a Druid. The archetype only mentions picking up the anathema of the Order your PC joins, which is a separate set.
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I'm hoping for more alchemist stuff. Making mutagenist functional and letting them carry their gear without feats or significant strength investment is the bare minimum, but there are still lots of fiddly issues with class features and too many feats that feel required just to function properly, which isn't what PF2 is supposed to be about.
If they did that there would be no real purpose to sturdy shields
That's pretty hyperbolic. There's a lot of wiggle room between what we have right now and sturdy shields being pointless.
Plus even if this hypothetical scenario where sturdy shields are completely irrelevant did come to pass, how is that bad but the status quo where a bunch of other types of shields are completely irrelevant instead somehow better?
I wouldn't expect to see any balance changes
I'm not sure they will, but there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't. Really it'd be pretty disappointing if they didn't, because the earlier in a system's life they start making improvements the better. PF1 tried to fix a lot of problems with the core game very late in the system's lifespan, which meant patches would come in the form of feats and archetypes rather than systemic changes and they'd often conflict unpleasantly with older content as a result. PF2 is still young enough to avoid that, if Paizo is willing.
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I would expect balance changes after a year - that way. Ore feedback can be gained
We are still in the phase where lots of the balance issues have not been played through enough to be sure that they aren’t mostly “white room” theories
I think if they hear comments at conventions next summer to add to the current noise then that might see some changes
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As to Druid shield block - they were given it simply because all characters that used to have shield proficiency were. It was likely a “find - replace” style job in the base document
That doesn’t mean it is key boon that they should be built around
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I know what you mean, due to the way classes are built yes we will have more feats naturally. But my points still stands. Its even more important now. It took damn near a decade to reach 1500 feats in first edition. Now we are almost already there so its even more important....so that feat-bloat doesn't become a thing in this edition as well.About that...
822 feats - Core Rulebook
205 feats - Lost Omens Character Guide
054 feats - Lost Omens World Guide
018 feats - Age of Ashes 1-3
002 feats - The Fall of Plaguestone (stand alone adventure)
001 feats - Society Adventures (cumulative adventures to date)
1,104 feats in total to date;D
I think feat bloat of the worst sort (i.e. 4th Edition D&D feats) is already here.
It's built into the rules. It is intentional. It was always meant to happen, and it has.
Luckily you don't have to ever pick the ~50% (80%?) of feats that are just filler.
It's worse for people that can't or won't see this; people that genuinely believe they get such a generous amount of useful content.
It isn't of course. It's just word [redacted] soup.
Everything that used to be called a rage power, rogue talent, alchemist discovery, paladin mercy and so on is now called a feat.
Suddenly we have a lot of feats. Surprise!
You have to look at this with fresh eyes, not bound to your idea of what a PF1 feat is.
I know what you mean, due to the way classes are built yes we will have more feats naturally. But my points still stands. Its even more important now. It took damn near a decade to reach 1500 feats in first edition. Now we are almost already there so its even more important....so that feat-bloat doesn't become a thing in this edition as well.About that...
822 feats - Core Rulebook
205 feats - Lost Omens Character Guide
054 feats - Lost Omens World Guide
018 feats - Age of Ashes 1-3
002 feats - The Fall of Plaguestone (stand alone adventure)
001 feats - Society Adventures (cumulative adventures to date)
1,104 feats in total to date;D
I think feat bloat of the worst sort (i.e. 4th Edition D&D feats) is already here.
It's built into the rules. It is intentional. It was always meant to happen, and it has.
Luckily you don't have to ever pick the ~50% (80%?) of feats that are just filler.
It's worse for people that can't or won't see this; people that genuinely believe they get such a generous amount of useful content.
It isn't of course. It's just word [redacted] soup.
80 and even 50% are gross overestimates. I'd say 15%, at most, because a significant number of feats are class feats, and I haven't seen a single one that is completely useless. Really, I don't think any feats are useless, but some have very niche uses (for example, I doubt Breath Control will be taken by anyone not in a campaign featuring a lot of water).
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It isn't of course. It's just word [redacted] soup.
I think it's fair game to suggest that there are lots of other pen and papers RPGs that don't suffer from multiple agonisingly anguish-inducting issues which you seem to bump into every day or so with PF2.
Or, in a wording more tailored to the tone of debate you seem enjoying, stop hitting yourself.
I'm not saying that there won't be changes that alter the balance of the game, just that the focus will be on making the core of the game consistent before fiddling with the specifics. For example, it wouldn't make sense to mess with the relative effectiveness of class based active defenses if shield use isn't consistently applied or not functioning as expected.
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I'd say 15%, at most, because a significant number of feats are class feats, and I haven't seen a single one that is completely useless. Really, I don't think any feats are useless, but some have very niche uses (for example, I doubt Breath Control will be taken by anyone not in a campaign featuring a lot of water).
I'd put it lower than 15%. If you removed General Feats and the Lore/Background based skill feats, I'd almost say it's near 0%.
Even Breath Control is decent for a nautical campaign. Niche to me doesn't equal "useless", as long as the power is appropriately proportioned to how niche something is.
Breath Control for instance is very niche, it is also very good in that niche.
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As someone who thought the notion of "rules bloat" was a fictional problem... bring on more feats!!
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No I don't. But Smite Evil and Blade of justice requires one action respectively 2 actions . And Retributive strike requires a reaction (hence Divine Reflexes in case u wanna use it twice in a round).
To gain the benefit of the feat you need activate the precise actions that benefit from it.
That's like complaining that an attack bonus still requires you to make an attack, and a damage bonus requires that you hit something! If your Champion doesn't have Smite Evil and never uses his reaction ability, then skip that feat and choose another!
Hot Take: Pathfinder 2 already has a ton of useless and very situational feats.
I didn't say merely situational, I said REALLY situational. The really part matters.Here is the thing. PAthfinder first edition had a ton of useless and very situational feats. This edition should imo aspire to avoid that. From the very start.
A slightly more nuanced take.
There are few totally useless feats, if useless means does nothing. I think just about every feat in the game does something.
There are a decent amount of situational feats, which isn't a bad thing and most of the highly situational ones are in archetypes instead of core class feats. Given that this edition has prioritised choice existing for players and that feats should not habitually increase raw numbers this means some feats will end up more niche than others. That's working as intended.