Low DEX Wizard?


Advice


Is 14 Dex too low for a wizard, leaving an AC of only 15, (18 HP @ lvl 1) or will it be fine?

I really like the idea of a Dwarf wizard (or Alchemist) but they can't get the 18 INT / 16 DEX set up i would usually want for a Wizard.(Not a fan of using the optional flaw system)

Is 16 INT / 16 DEX the better way to go or is 18 INT / 14 DEX okay. I'm also thinking Abjuration specialist so will that be enough to offset a low AC?

Any advice appreciated


You'll be fine, IMO. I've got an elf wizard with 16 Dex in the party and she still gets hit all the time, and unlike your dwarf has no hit point cushion to keep her alive. Plus with Unburdened Iron you could multiclass and get heavier armor without having to worry about strength requirements.

Edit: I suppose meeting stat requirements for champion would be difficult.


It will be fine if you continue to increase dex later.

Use the field to your advantage and if you don't feel secure enough, buy a common shield for +2 AC for one action.


Medium/Heavy Armor. There is no casting penalty.
And dwarfs can take a feat to remove the speed penalty.

Unfortunately, there is no good way to get expert in heavy armor, except champion dedication. But you won't need that till level 13. And you might bump your Dex by then, allowing you to stick with light. (AC caps at 20 Dex anyways).


you can have medium armor prof by level 3 as a dwarf if you MC rogue at level 2 (which is a great way to do more stuff with skills) and then spend your general feat on it.


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From the title of this topic, I thought it would be about an 8 Dex Wizard, which could raise legitimate questions. A 14 Dex Wizard is not a low Dex Wizard to me, it's a normal Dex Wizard. I don't even see where the problem could be... especially if it has a good hp buffer.


SuperBidi wrote:
From the title of this topic, I thought it would be about an 8 Dex Wizard, which could raise legitimate questions. A 14 Dex Wizard is not a low Dex Wizard to me, it's a normal Dex Wizard. I don't even see where the problem could be... especially if it has a good hp buffer.

I don't see any way of getting 8 Dex...


^ Rogue MCD is great way (that doesn't need CHA, which is problem for Dwarves) to help armor proficiencies early on, and you can later retrain it to other class feat if/when you get enough general feats for full armor tree. With Unburdened ignoring Armor STR req, you don't have to worry much about high starting STR, either. For 1st level, wearing Heavy Splint without Proficiency actually works fine, equivalent to Trained Unarmored 16 DEX, but from 2nd level just Trained Light (or Medium) is better considering Level+2 for Trained.

14 DEX (+2) + Light Armor (+2 AC) alone is more than 16 DEX Unarmored, so even starting with 12 or 10 DEX is fine with some Armor to help, not to mention a Shield. You can slowly work your way up to Heavy Armor as you gain the Feats to do so. Even just Trained Heavy compares well VS (eventually) Expert Unarmored with 16 starting DEX. (and Fortification negating Crits protects you better even with same nominal AC) Or if you want, you can stick with just Light Armor and slowly raise your DEX to fill the cap, which even a 16 starting DEX won't exceed until 15th.

DEX just doesn't really get you "better" AC, it just has less armor proficiency requirement. Since your ranged attacks will probably be spells anyways, you have that much less need for DEX. Sure, Reflex is nice, but you can still boost DEX even if you start lower, so I don't see big necessity to start with it higher... just so you can sooner spend boosts at half efficiency for no direct benefit?


@mellored: You have the optional rule of ability flaws, which is used in PFS, so quite commonly for an optional rule.


SuperBidi wrote:
@mellored: You have the optional rule of ability flaws, which is used in PFS, so quite commonly for an optional rule.

Is that just "pick any flaw"?

Because I don't see any Ancestrie with Dex as a flaw.


Mellored wrote:
I don't see any way of getting 8 Dex...

Paizo hasn't published any DEX flaw ancestry yet, but Voluntary Flaw can get 8 DEX.

I could see Dwarves using VolFlaw to STR and DEX to help CHA qualify for Champion MCD, Unburdened ignoring Armor STR req.


You can take 2 flaws to get one bonus to a third stat.

Also, when it comes to survival, Dex is less important than Con for a Wizard. Whatever your Dex score, you'll one day crit fail a Reflex save and be blown to pieces if you don't have enough hps. And AC is not that important to a caster if you play it properly, you're not supposed to take much blows.


Instead of taking two feats to get medium armor, you could take Monk Dedication and Mountain Stance. The bonus is nearly as good as Chain Mail, has no bulk, works with Mage Armor, and uses your Unarmored Defense proficiency. It does limit your strikes to the one type, but they are about as good as your staff and you are better off attacking with spells anyway. If you pick up Mountain Stronghold at 12th level you are effectively wearing invisible, weightless chain mail and an invisible, weightless shield.

You can also pick up other features valuable for a Wizard. Wholeness of Body for self-healing, Monk Movement for enhanced Speed, Perfection's Path for a Saving Throw bonus, etc.


I want to like it, but action requirement to enter stance seems tough, and you aren't going to qualify for Stance Savant / MoMS with 1/2 level equivalence that MCD offers. Mountain Stronghold doesn't really seem any better than a Shield...?

The MCD requires both 14 STR and DEX, so you aren't evading physical stat investment...
14 STR seems sufficient for Medium Armor/Shield Bulk, especially as you probably aren't carrying high bulk weapons... so I don't see big advantage of being "weightless"?
Likewise, you're not avoiding DEX investment despite 0 DEX cap to AC, so it doesn't seem to come off well compared to "Medium Armor" bonus (i.e. +3 or +4 plus +2 or +1): It's actually 1 less AC total than either Light or Medium (or Unarmored) hitting DEX cap (all = 5 total), which you already hit for Medium just from MCD DEX req.

I think Mountain Stance only works well for Base Monk who doesn't start with more than 10 DEX, and usually has Proficiency advantage VS most characters. For a Wizard, they seem better off either just focusing more on DEX / less on STR (and going Light / Unarmored), or more on STR / less on DEX (and going into Armor). Even if you want MCD:Monk for other Monk things, Mountain Stance doesn't seem that beneficial, and costs Class Feat which you presumably want for those "other Monk things" or own Wizard Feats...???

Am I missing something?


Also, the need for AC is going to be party composition dependent. With good HP and healing support your characters need to stay at top AC might just be wasting resources. Especially in a party with a paladin, it might be better for the team for you to be a juicy target hanging out where the enemy can choose to move and then attack you, because it will be wasting actions on movement and triggering retributive strike. In that case, being 1 or 2 points of AC behind is almost useful, especially if it transitions into 1 or 2 HP per level.
You can be extra punishing at higher levels by using spells that give miss chance rather than AC boosts, and ones that cause attackers damage.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Is it just me, or is anyone else experiencing cognitive dissonance from 14 being considered "low Dex" at 1st level?


Some Kind of Chymist wrote:


Is 14 Dex too low for a wizard, leaving an AC of only 15, (18 HP @ lvl 1) or will it be fine?

I really like the idea of a Dwarf wizard (or Alchemist) but they can't get the 18 INT / 16 DEX set up i would usually want for a Wizard.(Not a fan of using the optional flaw system)

Is 16 INT / 16 DEX the better way to go or is 18 INT / 14 DEX okay. I'm also thinking Abjuration specialist so will that be enough to offset a low AC?

Any advice appreciated

18/14 is fine. I run that on my Elf Wizard and he's in good shape, he hasn't died yet. The biggest thing is positioning and tactics.

That, and taking Rogue dedication for light armor proficiency is nice too...


To me it is fine ( even if you Plan not to raise it anymore ). Just stay back and let your party handle the fight.

Eventually remember that you can protect yourself, the more you proceed un the game, and also get access to teleport spells.


Unless something has changed for PF2, 10 and 11 are average human scores. Anything with a bonus is good. I'm still getting used to having an easily attainable 18 at level 1. That still blows me away.

Sovereign Court

Adventurers just aren't average members of the general population.

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