how exactly does poison work?


Rules Discussion


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

i've tried to wrap my mind around it a few times, but i can't seem to figure out when actually does your poison stop working.

this finally came to a head today as i'm reading the Envenom Fangs ancestral feat for Lizardfolk.

Quote:
You envenom your fangs. If the next fangs Strike you make before the end of your next turn hits and deals damage, the Strike deals an additional 1d6 poison damage. On a critical failure, the poison is wasted as normal.

my first reading makes it look like only the next fang attack you make, but the time limit and the critical failure effect seem to say this isn't the case. can i just get a clearly written example of when and how poisons work and don't.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Basically if you CritFail on Attack 1 you don’t keep the poison for your next possible 4 attacks (1 Action remaining this round and 3 next), whereas if you simply missed you could keep attacking and hoping to poison them.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

With the feat "Envenom Fangs" from the LOCG, you have a very limited and specific application of poison. First you have to spend an action. Then it sounds like you get the poison on only one attack that hits & deals damage. After dealing damage there is no more poison available until you spend another action, up to the daily limit.

Contrary to most poisons, this appears to only do damage once. I would have prefered seeing the poison described like other types of poison, with a max duration, stage 1, 2 & 3 and the whole nine yards.

Look at giant centipede venom. That stuff is nasty!


Good time to all. My players had a couple of questions about multiclassing capabilities. And naturally, I could not answer them. Therefore, I want to ask you.
One of the players plays the alchemists and remembering the line from the first edition which allowed changing the type of poisons on the fly, decided to make the character of the alchemist with an emphasis on poisons, traps and a little robber. I did not even expect that she read the first edition so well and managed to learn the second one too. According to the idea, a trait was needed, in the first edition it was taken at level 6 and allowed to change the type of poison. It is not in the current rules. It remains an opportunity to take the archetype of the robber, in which there is a feature that allows him to put poison on weapons and hit them with the enemy.
And so I come to the main thing, to the questions. Could an alchemist who cooks poisons himself. taking the archetype and trait to put your poison on it instead of the standard one described in the trait? How does poison itself work within a robber? Basically, it deals 1d4 damage, but no stages or duration. And is it possible to make an alchemist with specialization in poisons and a trap, with poison of course.
And yes about the readability of the above text, all questions to Google.
Thank.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Basically if you CritFail on Attack 1 you don’t keep the poison for your next possible 4 attacks (1 Action remaining this round and 3 next), whereas if you simply missed you could keep attacking and hoping to poison them.

As Rysky said, and I'll call out that there is the implication that once your Strike hits and deals damage the poison is used and the effect is done. If you miss you can try again until the end of your next turn, but if any Strike critically misses the effect is done immediately.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The thing is, it doesn't *feel* like poison since there are no lingering effects, no stages, no max duration, no recurring damage. Just 1d6 once. AFAICT there is also no FORT save against it.

You would think that if you're using poison, it should act like poison.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Basically if you CritFail on Attack 1 you don’t keep the poison for your next possible 4 attacks (1 Action remaining this round and 3 next), whereas if you simply missed you could keep attacking and hoping to poison them.

While I prefer this ruling, it seems to contradict the OP's quoted text (which I cannot verify).

It says, "If the next fang strike hits..." - implying that the poison only applies to the next strike, hit or miss.
If it said, "The next fang strike that hits before EOYNT..." then I would more easily agree that it's just waiting for a strike to connect.

The time limit makes sense either way (you cannot envenom and then wait forever for you next fang strike to actually be made), but the crit-failure effect does imply that normal misses do not expend the poison.


Wheldrake wrote:

The thing is, it doesn't *feel* like poison since there are no lingering effects, no stages, no max duration, no recurring damage. Just 1d6 once. AFAICT there is also no FORT save against it.

You would think that if you're using poison, it should act like poison.

Just as a note. There area lready various spells, or monsters, or specific poisons that just do poison damage in that one moment.

Poisoned Weapon the rogue feat, gives D4 poison that only applies a single isntance of poison damage. Also as there are poison resistances, I assume there are poison weaknesses, which those things will be fun to trigger with-and will trigger on hit as opposed to requiring th fort save failure.

So there already were types of poison rider damage. Just a different method of amount of exposure fluff wise.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Iceman wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Basically if you CritFail on Attack 1 you don’t keep the poison for your next possible 4 attacks (1 Action remaining this round and 3 next), whereas if you simply missed you could keep attacking and hoping to poison them.

While I prefer this ruling, it seems to contradict the OP's quoted text (which I cannot verify).

It says, "If the next fang strike hits..." - implying that the poison only applies to the next strike, hit or miss.

That is not the way to read it, if it only applied to your next strike and no more it would specifically call that out, which multiple abilities do.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Zwordsman wrote:
Wheldrake wrote:

The thing is, it doesn't *feel* like poison since there are no lingering effects, no stages, no max duration, no recurring damage. Just 1d6 once. AFAICT there is also no FORT save against it.

You would think that if you're using poison, it should act like poison.

Just as a note. There area lready various spells, or monsters, or specific poisons that just do poison damage in that one moment.

Poisoned Weapon the rogue feat, gives D4 poison that only applies a single isntance of poison damage. Also as there are poison resistances, I assume there are poison weaknesses, which those things will be fun to trigger with-and will trigger on hit as opposed to requiring th fort save failure.

So there already were types of poison rider damage.

Pretty much, in P2 Poison is a type of damage as well as an effect.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Iceman wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Basically if you CritFail on Attack 1 you don’t keep the poison for your next possible 4 attacks (1 Action remaining this round and 3 next), whereas if you simply missed you could keep attacking and hoping to poison them.

While I prefer this ruling, it seems to contradict the OP's quoted text (which I cannot verify).

It says, "If the next fang strike hits..." - implying that the poison only applies to the next strike, hit or miss.
If it said, "The next fang strike that hits before EOYNT..." then I would more easily agree that it's just waiting for a strike to connect.

The time limit makes sense either way (you cannot envenom and then wait forever for you next fang strike to actually be made), but the crit-failure effect does imply that normal misses do not expend the poison.

more or less this

i've just decided to read "If the next fangs Strike you make before the end of your next turn hits and deals damage"

as "if the next fangs strike, you make before the end of your turn, hits and deals damage."

without the punctuation it makes no sense, but with it it is okay.


I would change as follows:

Quote:
You envenom your fangs. The next fangs Strike you make before the end of your next turn that hits and deals damage deals an additional 1d6 poison damage. On a critical failure, the poison is wasted as normal.

It seems like there may have been waffling as to whether it should last for one attack attempt or until one attack connection, and the final result has a bit of both.

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