So what will the new Investigator look like?


Advanced Player’s Guide Playtest General Discussion

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

So the month is half over and the APG playtest is looming on the horizon. I have seen some talk about what the Witch and Oracle should be in 2E but how about the Investigator?

In 1E it is a really strong class but it has some weird points, for instance that it is part alchemist but extracts are kind of just tacked on for that.

Here are some things I am sure will be the case
-Hp 8
-Key Ability Dex, Int or Wis
-Expert in Perception

-Expert in Fortitude
-Expert in Reflex
-Trained in Will

-Trained in Thievery
-Trained in Crafting
-Trained in a number of additional skills equal to 5 plus your Intelligence modifier

-Trained in Simple Weapons and the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, short sword, and sword cane

-Trained in light armor
-Trained in unarmored defense

Class Features
-Field of Expertise - Similar to a rogue racket but focused more on either crafting, perception or Tactical combat.
-Inspiration - Some kind of focus spells that give advantages or conditions. Points can be regained in combat by spending 2 actions studying a target or situation.
-Studied Combat - Something like a hybrid between Ranger edges and sneak attacks maybe combos with Inspiration
-Poison and Medicine Use

That is just the basics I can think of. What do you guys think this class will like in 2E


I'd guess their subclass option would veer closer to alchemist than rogue, providing fixed benefits at later levels but not giving flexibility in the key ability score (which I suspect will be Int). I'd assume they are trained in medicine rather than thievery because I think forensics is closer to investigator things than anything thievery has going for it baseline. Otherwise I pretty much agree with your assessment. I really hope they get sword canes (and more importantly, that we see sword canes in the APG).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

On the note of sword canes it would be nice to add more hidden or dual purpose weapons such as bladed and weighted scarves. Umbrella/Parasol Swords, Pen Knives ect.

As for thievery I was thinking mostly toward its uses in finding clues but I guess that is a matter of perspective more than skill. I think like alchemist they should be able to use craft in place of medicine although if there were ever a class that wants battle medic and godless healer Investigator is probably it.

Liberty's Edge

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Str Investigators were every bit as common as Dex ones (indeed, the PFS pregen of the Iconic Investigator has higher Str than Dex) so I'd expect Str as a Key Ability option if Dex is (though Int always being their Key Ability is also plausible), and I'm positive they'll continue to be better at Will than Fortitude as well.

That said, I think this degree of specificity in speculation isn't super useful.

My guesses as to what Investigators are gonna be like are as follows:

1. They will have Alchemy stuff more or less like an Alchemist, though I suspect they won't have the ability to spend more and make items on the fly (all alchemical items will need to be made at the beginning of the day).

2. Their Inspiration will definitely give Skill bonuses of some sort. It's possible that Inspiration and Reagents will be combined so they can choose their degree of focus on instant bonuses and their degree of focus on Alchemy.

3. They will get other Skill bonuses in the form of additional Skill Increases, Skill Feats, or something else inherent rather than something you spend like Inspiration, but not as many as Rogues get.

4. Studied Combat of some sort is hopefully in. I don't know quite how they'll make that work in PF2, though I have a few ideas.

And that's all the speculating I care to do until we see how things look.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Str Investigators were every bit as common as Dex ones (indeed, the PFS pregen of the Iconic Investigator has higher Str than Dex) so I'd expect Str as a Key Ability option if Dex is (though Int always being their Key Ability is also plausible), and I'm positive they'll continue to be better at Will than Fortitude as well.

That said, I think this degree of specificity in speculation isn't super useful.

My guesses as to what Investigators are gonna be like are as follows:

1. They will have Alchemy stuff more or less like an Alchemist, though I suspect they won't have the ability to spend more and make items on the fly (all alchemical items will need to be made at the beginning of the day).

2. Their Inspiration will definitely give Skill bonuses of some sort. It's possible that Inspiration and Reagents will be combined so they can choose their degree of focus on instant bonuses and their degree of focus on Alchemy.

3. They will get other Skill bonuses in the form of additional Skill Increases, Skill Feats, or something else inherent rather than something you spend like Inspiration, but not as many as Rogues get.

4. Studied Combat of some sort is hopefully in. I don't know quite how they'll make that work in PF2, though I have a few ideas.

And that's all the speculating I care to do until we see how things look.

Yah Str is common because of melee but 2E has made finesse better since damage die go up from class. That is why I went toward Dex and Int give a choice from rogue and a choice from alchemist. I did the same for saves. Although with the whole inspiration thing maybe Investigator will be good at all saves.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Str Investigators were every bit as common as Dex ones (indeed, the PFS pregen of the Iconic Investigator has higher Str than Dex) so I'd expect Str as a Key Ability option if Dex is (though Int always being their Key Ability is also plausible), and I'm positive they'll continue to be better at Will than Fortitude as well.

That said, I think this degree of specificity in speculation isn't super useful.

My guesses as to what Investigators are gonna be like are as follows:

1. They will have Alchemy stuff more or less like an Alchemist, though I suspect they won't have the ability to spend more and make items on the fly (all alchemical items will need to be made at the beginning of the day).

2. Their Inspiration will definitely give Skill bonuses of some sort. It's possible that Inspiration and Reagents will be combined so they can choose their degree of focus on instant bonuses and their degree of focus on Alchemy.

3. They will get other Skill bonuses in the form of additional Skill Increases, Skill Feats, or something else inherent rather than something you spend like Inspiration, but not as many as Rogues get.

4. Studied Combat of some sort is hopefully in. I don't know quite how they'll make that work in PF2, though I have a few ideas.

And that's all the speculating I care to do until we see how things look.

4. I would love something related to Recall Knowledge. You study your enemy (use 1 action) and get to know some information about him and some kind of bonus to atack/damage. If you want to study the same enemy again, you use a focus point.


With how the Core classes are set out, and with the addition of class Archetypes, it feels to me as if there might be very, very little, if any, class overlap. Having class overlap with certain abilities (Skill quantity with rogue, Alchemy specialisation with Alchemist) would either create arguments for and against either class as the "superior" one, or would cause people to use archetypes to "double up" on specific abilities (Granted this can be sort of done with hunt prey and Rogue archetype sneak attack, though those types of precision damages are gained in different ways.)

I have a feeling that in order to make investigators unique so that there's little overlap with rogue and alchemist, it could likely improve on skill quality over skill quantity, as mentioned gaining more types of skill bonuses which can be utilised in and out of combat a lot differently than what's normally available.

The most likely option is Paizo putting focus on inspiration though, since that was the most unique thing about PF1e Investigator in comparison to Rogue and Alchemist. They'd most likely have class trees to focus on using it yourself or giving it to other party members.


Maybe the investigator was announced to be featured in the APG, I don't know.
But in 1e it was not part of it, as a hybrid class it was only introduced with the Advanced Class Guide.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Was thinking about this last night.

Traditionally in 1e the Investigator was a mix of Alchemy and Rogue. 2e has the unique approach to branch off from there and make it unique.

Maybe the Investigator will have not rely on Alchemy at all and have unique new options and features. I think having something like gadgets or trinkets would be awesome and would fit the class nicely. Could be magical or not , or a mix, and also expand out the design space for the class (without crowding the Alchemist design space)

However it turns out, i'm sure it will be awesome!

Dataphiles

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Turgan wrote:

Maybe the investigator was announced to be featured in the APG, I don't know.

But in 1e it was not part of it, as a hybrid class it was only introduced with the Advanced Class Guide.

They've announced the 4 classes that will be in the 2E APG: Swashbuckler, Oracle, Witch, and Investigator.

The playtest for them is expected to drop toward the end of this month.


One thing with the new edition alchemy is more of a normal crafting type skill so just incorporating some of that into investigators would be a lot more seamless than the weird semi magical extracts were.


Would it break anything if they were a bit like the Fighter of skills? Just have them start off with some skills at a higher prof bonus than any other class can start with.


Winkie_Phace wrote:
Would it break anything if they were a bit like the Fighter of skills? Just have them start off with some skills at a higher prof bonus than any other class can start with.

Maybe. The rogue already kind of owns that niche.

I also think that, given that most other classes tend to be balanced across other aspects of the game, that letting one (or two) classes 'own' skills is unhealthy for Pathfinder in general.

Liberty's Edge

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I personally hope that it shares NOTHING in common with Rogue or Alchemist but instead have their own, brand new and unique skillset and abilities.

I'd really hate to see Paizo make the same mistake this go around as they did last time with creating hybrid classes. Much like the Magus, I think the Inv needs to define itself on its own terms.

Something along the lines of Equipment preparation whereby they can "attune" or otherwise improve how they use their physical equipment in unique and interesting ways.

-Preparations
--Choose 1 + Character Level number of Items from your inventory that fall into the categories from the following list, Prepared Items provide an additional +1 item bonus to checks made that involve the use of that category of item.
*Rope
*Potion
*Scroll
*Staff
*Poison
*Alchemical Item
*Tool-Kit
*Musical Instrument

At 13th Level the additional Item Bonus increases to +2.

-Investigators Guile
--You may use 'Follow the Expert' 'Hustle' 'Investigate' and 'Search' Exploration Mode activities while in Encounter Mode. Doing so costs 1 Action,. You may Ready an Action to perform any of these activities.

At 7th Level you may Ready an Actions which require 1 or 2 Actions.

------------------

Just some silly, half-baked ideas.

Contributor

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As someone who has a 17th level psychic detective investigator, I am also hoping that they pull away from alchemy a bit when it comes to the class. I would rather have to multiclass for alchemy / spells, personally.

Instead, I want to see the investigator out-skill the rogue, but have worse offense. Studied combatant is awesome and I want to see some form of that mechanic in the new investigator; hopefully at an earlier level. It would also be neat if the investigator’s studied combatant made them super good at using the “attack action skills”, like Athletics to shove or disarm.


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On the topic of dual-purpose weapons, would it be absolutely insane to have a class feature/feat that let you have two different weapons of your choice in one, and let you swap with a free action?

Example could be a cane sword (quarterstaff/sword) or something more unusual like an axe that turns into a flail somehow.

Maybe it's a completely dumb idea but I've always felt that there is somewhat a connection between investigators and bloodborne characters. (Well, bloodborne hunters are probably more like slayers or 1E rangers, but the trick weapon aspect feels investigator-y to me.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nicolas Paradise wrote:

On the note of sword canes it would be nice to add more hidden or dual purpose weapons such as bladed and weighted scarves. Umbrella/Parasol Swords, Pen Knives ect.

As for thievery I was thinking mostly toward its uses in finding clues but I guess that is a matter of perspective more than skill. I think like alchemist they should be able to use craft in place of medicine although if there were ever a class that wants battle medic and godless healer Investigator is probably it.

yeah they need these, single stick also :)

not sure on the crafting, i get that its legacy but i would not have an issue going a different way with them,


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One thing I'd like to see is Investigators get a lot of weird attacks.

The flavor of studied combat always implied a sort of technical fighting style that was more about outwitting opponents than simply hitting harder, but that gets kind of lost in PF1 when full attacking for maximum damage is the best choice most of the time.

PF2 has given martial characters lots of unique attack actions and I'd love to see the PF2 investigator leverage that and get some nice unique actions that allow them to feel more like they're manipulating their opponents and the battlefield.


Henro wrote:

On the topic of dual-purpose weapons, would it be absolutely insane to have a class feature/feat that let you have two different weapons of your choice in one, and let you swap with a free action?

Example could be a cane sword (quarterstaff/sword) or something more unusual like an axe that turns into a flail somehow.

Would probably cost a single action rather than a free action; to mimic the shifting rune. Something about the new edition with the 3-actions and the shifting rune has made Trick Weapons seem rather appealing. Would be purely homebrew territory though.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Squiggit wrote:

One thing I'd like to see is Investigators get a lot of weird attacks.

The flavor of studied combat always implied a sort of technical fighting style that was more about outwitting opponents than simply hitting harder, but that gets kind of lost in PF1 when full attacking for maximum damage is the best choice most of the time.

PF2 has given martial characters lots of unique attack actions and I'd love to see the PF2 investigator leverage that and get some nice unique actions that allow them to feel more like they're manipulating their opponents and the battlefield.

Perhaps study combat can be both an action and reaction that gives benefits against a specific creature. So you can proactively watch a creatures movement to work out an approach, or you can spend your reaction watching how the creature reacts to your allies strikes to determine an attack vector.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

they could have some feats that lean into occultism too, instead of alchemy. that would be cool.

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