So who's using the critical hits deck?


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I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow, deadly variant even, but I'm worried for my players - if they lose an eye or a hand, regenerate is a 7th level spell, and they're still 3rd level. Also Breachill isn't exactly swimming in high level healers.

I'm thinking I could allow any healing magic restoring enough hit points to cure a crippling wound like that.

Or else, if I wanna be mean, I could require a trip to the capital to get someone to cast regenerate?

Any advice? And what are you guys doing with your decks, how are you using them?


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Roswynn wrote:
Or else, if I wanna be mean, I could require a trip to the capital to get someone to cast regenerate?

If they have to pay someone else to cast it it's 360 gp per casting (CRB page 294) for a 7th-level spell. Quite a lot for 3rd-level adventurers! Maybe you should say their amputated hands turn into gold and their lost eyes into gems, so the problem pays for itself... ;-)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Brought it to my last session, and no one of the PCs rolled a 20 for the first time ever :P

I rolled one, but a low level minion monster so didn't draw. Hopefully will get a chance tomorrow.

I haven't looked at it too closely, but I want to use it mostly for the PCs to feel powerful, so hopefully they'll roll better this weekend.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I am using them, but we don't want things to turn farcical so we are only using them when someone's AC is beaten by 20, which did happen several times in the Playtest. So far in one session this hasn't happened, but with the party only being level 1 this is expected. Criticals in my game are already dangerous enough due to house rules (the party's fighter did 44 damage on a crit with his guisarme that had Magic Weapon cast on it); using these cards as intended would cause too much havoc.

If things go well I'll be using the Critical Fumble deck similarly.


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I used last week in my gaming session. One confirmed 20 crit against a river drake. Rogue wizard using a rapier - lights out river drake. Just waiting to get crt fumble to arrive at my corner gaming store. Excellent work Paizo.


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Roswynn wrote:

I'm gonna give it a try tomorrow, deadly variant even, but I'm worried for my players - if they lose an eye or a hand, regenerate is a 7th level spell, and they're still 3rd level. Also Breachill isn't exactly swimming in high level healers.

I'm thinking I could allow any healing magic restoring enough hit points to cure a crippling wound like that.

Or else, if I wanna be mean, I could require a trip to the capital to get someone to cast regenerate?

Any advice? And what are you guys doing with your decks, how are you using them?

I would advise against the deadly variant. The standard operation method for them are more than debilitating enough and add enough spice to the combat to make it more dynamic instead of slowing things to a crawl and adding more stuff to things that may or may not matter. Even with the standard operation, we did struggle a couple of times with keeping track of debuffs we may have suffered or inflicted, but nothing we couldn't handle (some groups may have struggled though).

As for how we use the cards, there are basic rules for them listed in there, and we haven't come across any limb severing cards yet (though we do know there is a potential decapitation card based on teasers posted to us). Most of those usually have saving throws equal to the enemy's Class DC (means big bads are more likely to cause these debilitations compared to normal bad guys, so it's most likely to occur in key fights, making for memorable and potentially fun combats).

As an example we had last night, I used Ray of Frost on a enemy wizard, rolled a Natural 20 with average damage (16 after critical), with an effect of "Target is Stupefied 2 until Healed." In other words, I hit them right in the skull and gave them some very bad brain freeze, which is cool, debilitating, and had useful applications in the fight.

I would probably allow characters who critically hit normally (the "10 or over" rule, not the Natural 20 method) to spend a hero point to get a card if they wanted, which gives characters some better control over certain combats and makes hero points more usable besides on rerolls or death preventions; having an offensive use for hero points like this sounds like a fun and good idea as well. This allows a more "deadly" variant in the PCs favor while also making Hero Points more versatile.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy - point taken!

Fumarole - personally I don't think I'll buy the fumbles deck too, because of various reasons. Missing badly is already a s!#$ty event, and with all the accidents the deck would cause that really would turn things more or less farcical - there's nothing heroic in hitting yourself with your own weapon, and no verisimilitude added in my opinion. It also discourages iterative attacks, which runs against the MAP mechanic and everything it brings with it, feats included, I think. Of course I don't know what the actual rules will be, so maybe upon reading them I'll have a big change of heart - who knows!

Tsa Vol'rae - yeah but what was the crit effect? What gory doom was waiting for the river drake on the tip of the rogue mage's rapier (nice MC combo btw)? I want more interesting wounds than just loss of hit points all the time... that's why I bought the deck.

Darksol the Painbringer - I will take your advice in consideration - if I see that using the deadly variant results in a lot of complications, debuffs, loss of limbs and generally just too much to keep track, then I'll shift back to the default use of the deck. Love the example from your game. The hero point option you came up with is very cool! It's something else I should remember, just in case.

Everyone - nice, love to know how the deck is influencing your game! Post more! And tell me if you wanna know how things go tomorrow!

Oh... and by the way, I'm also thinking, what I really want the cards to do is adding a little variety to combat, simulate actual wounds a little... but I'm not necessarily married to the idea of always having the draw be completely random. I could draw a beheading or limb severing against a pc and decide to re-draw, for instance... without telling anyone. Also, if a pc crits and the results don't make sense, I might ask them to re-draw in that case too.

Thoughts?

Silver Crusade

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I'll give my usual warning. Be very aware that you ARE making the game more random and deadly (that is kinda the whole point) as, in the long run, these things affect PCs at least as much as NPCs.

Make sure the players are happy with these and don't force them on unwilling players. Some players (eg, me) hate things like this with a fiery passion and using gentle (or ungentle) persuasion will likely just leave them unhappy.

That said, if your group is ok with the extra randomness and deadliness, go for it.


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pauljathome wrote:

I'll give my usual warning. Be very aware that you ARE making the game more random and deadly (that is kinda the whole point) as, in the long run, these things affect PCs at least as much as NPCs.

Make sure the players are happy with these and don't force them on unwilling players. Some players (eg, me) hate things like this with a fiery passion and using gentle (or ungentle) persuasion will likely just leave them unhappy.

That said, if your group is ok with the extra randomness and deadliness, go for it.

And if you're considering using a critical fumble deck, this principle applies ten times over.


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Henro wrote:
pauljathome wrote:

I'll give my usual warning. Be very aware that you ARE making the game more random and deadly (that is kinda the whole point) as, in the long run, these things affect PCs at least as much as NPCs.

Make sure the players are happy with these and don't force them on unwilling players. Some players (eg, me) hate things like this with a fiery passion and using gentle (or ungentle) persuasion will likely just leave them unhappy.

That said, if your group is ok with the extra randomness and deadliness, go for it.

And if you're considering using a critical fumble deck, this principle applies ten times over.

Well, the good news is that the default rules are Natural 1s only and don't have the "any critical failure" optional rule (though it's very easy to implement if desired). I honestly wouldn't mind it since it would make characters better consider using their actions for things other than 20 fishing on attack rolls, especially since combat is intended to not be a stationary slugfest. Incorporating things like intimidation, shield use, feinting, or other 1-action one-offs are great ways to make combat more dynamic.


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I think losing an eye for several levels is a feature, not a bug, though my players are the sort who actually enjoy that kind of thing.

I will be using both decks (crit and fumble) in my pf2 campaign.

My players actually kept bugging me until I got the cards for starfinder.


Okay, first off we played and the only crit they received was an extra d6 of mental damage from a boss' spell, while they drew a card that couldn't apply so they re-drew and got a nice one that I don't remember, and another time one that didn't really change much because the crit per se killed off the enemy... SOOO, all in all, right now with a little application of common sense it's working pretty damn well.

Pauljathome - you're right, it makes the game more random, but I must say till now they seem to like it. As soon as it appears they aren't enjoying it anymore I'll put the deck away.

Henro - damn right, but no, I wouldn't use it. If they want to use that deck of course I'm game.

Darksol - Only natural 1s? That's nice actually. I must say they're using great tactics and moving all over the place, changing and diversifying their actions according to the enemy they're facing and the environment (the fighter very soon went against the necromancer boss and grappled her, in the end she managed to free herself but it helped a lot). Yeah, if it's only 1s and the guys wanna give it a try we'll share the expenses and we'll try it.

Tender Tendrils - Huh. Losing an eye for several levels is pretty cool... losing a hand, eeenh. Losing your head and dying... ouch. We're not that gritty, I think. BUT only I know what I'm drawing... and if I think the result would be too ruthless given the circumstances I can always bluff ("Yeah, no, this wouldn't apply to you") and re-draw. A girl in particular is very scared of me beheading her druid... if she ever decides it's getting too brutal I'm keeping the deck only for other campaigns. Same for the other players of course.

Thank you all, guys. We had a lot of fun today, but we'll have to test the effect of the deck over multiple games to see if everyone's alright with them and if we can handle it. Still, as of now we're all pretty on board ;)

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Are there any specific cards which are just kind of... too much?! I still consider buying the deck, and I have removed some cards from the old crit and fumble deck. Namely cards that capacitate a pc or let them hit themself with their own weapon.
I would do this again, if the new deck is bringing some fun to the table without being silly.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber

I've used it for a few sessions. So far, about half the time the crit effects are essentially irrelevant, or it becomes less effective than a traditional crit, because it has a "normal damage" with a completely or mostly-irrelevant rider.

Using the default rules (PCs get the cards on a natural 20, NPCs only if they are same level or higher) they just haven't had much of an effect yet, and probably overall have reduced damage players have dealt.

Part of that is rolling high on the flat checks from bleed damage the couple of times that came up.

Still, it's currently a small sample - only something like 8-10 cards drawn do far.

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