Warlock 5e ---> Pathfinder 2


Conversions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I normally don't double dip threads but I've seen more posts here than conversions...anyway

Hello Pathfinder 2 fans I have been working on a conversation of the 5e style Warlock. Other than completing the feat list, it's ready for public consumption.

Main design goals:

1)A different kind of caster
2)Eldritch Blast as the core mechanic but not pew pew
3)Pacts are meaningfull choices that completely change how you play your lock.

I would love to hear your feedback

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuboMlSYMDAS4yztgVHNe7up4MkX2TDUNnPRSMO 4xkw/edit?usp=drivesdk

Sovereign Court

It says the Google page you posted does not exist.

However, if you want to look at my own Warlock build for PF2e, here you go:

Samurai's Pathfinder 2e Warlock

There is also another person on this forum creating his own version of a Warlock class. I tried to keep the flavor from the 5e version, while he is trying to give it his own style. You can find it on the Homebrew forum page, which is also where you should post yours.


Samurai wrote:

It says the Google page you posted does not exist.

However, if you want to look at my own Warlock build for PF2e, here you go:

Samurai's Pathfinder 2e Warlock

There is also another person on this forum creating his own version of a Warlock class. I tried to keep the flavor from the 5e version, while he is trying to give it his own style. You can find it on the Homebrew forum page, which is also where you should post yours.

So...a few minor issues first:

1. Why doesn't Fiend grant the Divine list? The optional spells they grant are mostly Arcane, anyway. Divine base list with Arcane bonus spells feels way better. As it stands, there's no way for a fiend warlock to deal evil damage, which sounds counter-intuitive.

2. Feats that grant a single spell from another list feels pretty limited, and I don't think any Pathfinder 2e class currently does that. A better implementation would be a feat that allows you to add any spell from a select category/list of traits, depending on your patron (eg, a feat available to the Archfey patron that allows you to select an arcane spell from the Illusion school).

Now for the major problem:

Overall I'm not sure how well the 5e warlock casting mechanic carries over into Pathfinder 2e at all. As it stands, there's no reason to play your warlock over a sorcerer or a bard. The warlock's casting progression is simply inferior in every way, and by a wide margin. At low levels, being able to heighten any spell automatically to 5th level means little when a bard or sorcerer knows as many signature spells as the warlock knows spells -- and they can heighten their signature spells to whatever level they want. Regaining spell slots on refocus is nice, but I doubt any adventuring day is going to last long enough for that to become an advantage over just having more spell slots. Besides, other casters have focus points too, which means they won't end up with nothing but cantrips even if they're out of slots.

At higher levels, a bard has 3 spell slots and spells known for each spell level from 6 to 9, and a sorcerer has 4. Your warlock has 1, maybe 2 with feats (which are all extremely weak compared to bard feats like Deep Lore and Impossible Polymath, or sorcerer bloodline evolutions). Losing this many high level spells is not a fair trade off at all for the ability to recast low level spells, especially considering how few of those a warlock even knows.

I would highly, HIGHLY recommend you use Pathfinder 2e native spellcasting mechanics and try to fit the warlock class's lore and feel around it, rather than the other way round.


Frogliacci wrote:
Overall I'm not sure how well the 5e warlock casting mechanic carries over into Pathfinder 2e at all.

5e warlock spells would map well to PF2 focus spells.

Sovereign Court

Mellored wrote:
Frogliacci wrote:
Overall I'm not sure how well the 5e warlock casting mechanic carries over into Pathfinder 2e at all.
5e warlock spells would map well to PF2 focus spells.

I kind of agree, that's why my Warlocks can use Refocus to recover both Focus Points and Spell Slots at the same time, and eventually can get 2 or even 3 of each back every 10 minutes.

Just using all spells as Focus spells either means expanding the limit beyond 3 max, or giving them some kind of discount (like "the highest level spells you can cast use a Focus point each, lower lever spells become cantrips and may be cast at will.") I considered that and used a version of it in my very first proposal, but the feedback was not great so I scrapped it.

Frogliacci, the Warlock is not supposed to compete with the Sorcerer for pure spellcasting power. It is more of a "gish" class, like the 1e Magus. In addition to casting some spells, it has some fighting ability: Light armor or Medium armor, at least Simple weapons and maybe 1 or more Martial too. It can come with a Familiar that becomes an animal companion. You could just do a multiclass dedication, maybe Sorcerer/Fighter or Ranger, but then there is nothing I need to create, the rules for that are in the book. (And that is also a better comparison, how does a full Warlock character balance against a Ranger w/Sorcerer Multiclass. You don't get the full Sorcerer class casting power, only a taste of it, and doing so will prevent you from being able to boost your Ranger class features)?

In fact, since a lot of people are creating Warlocks, maybe my next 2e creation will be the Magus. Doing that may lead to more inspiration on how to improve the Warlock.


Samurai wrote:

the Warlock is not supposed to compete with the Sorcerer for pure spellcasting power. It is more of a "gish" class, like the 1e Magus. In addition to casting some spells, it has some fighting ability: Light armor or Medium armor, at least Simple weapons and maybe 1 or more Martial too. It can come with a Familiar that becomes an animal companion. You could just do a multiclass dedication, maybe Sorcerer/Fighter or Ranger, but then there is nothing I need to create, the rules for that are in the book. (And that is also a better comparison, how does a full Warlock character balance against a Ranger w/Sorcerer Multiclass. You don't get the full Sorcerer class casting power, only a taste of it, and doing so will prevent you from being able to boost your Ranger class features)?

In fact, since a lot of people are creating Warlocks, maybe my next 2e creation will be the Magus. Doing that may lead to more inspiration on how to improve the Warlock.

Except that almost ALL warlock feats are designed to boost spellcasting, rather than to improve their martial ability. They also don't have many class features designed to boost their martial combat, barring proficiency increase. A ranger or fighter multiclassed with sorcerer would have a lot more.

You also shouldn't use the sorcerer multiclass as a chassis for this, because spontaneous multiclassing is strictly weaker than prepared at this moment, unless you're doing it solely for focus powers.

I also suspect that the 1e Magus would be converted to a full caster in the style of the warpriest cleric. A wizard archetype is probably the most elegant way of doing it. They'd lose out the wizard school and legendary proficiency in arcane spells. In exchange they get better weapon, armor, and save progression, and 8hp/level.


Some quick points because I'm at work :(

The demonic pact DOES grant the divine tradition. But its granted spells (as all the other pacts) for the niche not a particular list

In response to gishyness I have not completed the feat list as of yet but you can see where items are planned including the Pact weapon

Why are there feats that grant spells? Because 1) limited access to casting 2) 5e did this as well to balance the casting restrictions.

So far at home play tests the focus mechanic has not had any issues keeping up when you include Eldritch blast and it's various forms

Potentially you can cast 5 focus spells ea h short rest or 10 per day


Here is my partial attempt.

Adjusting the flavor to allow warlocks to contract with many different creatures, not just 1. So you can deal with devils and angles. As such many Warlocks are neutral.
Start with 3 focus points, and flexible focus spells.
Customizable eldritch blast, that is 1 action attack.
All other spells/invocations are feats (jump, devils sight, charm, ect...).

Trained in Deception, Diplomacy, Intimidation, Occultism, and a number of additional skills equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Trained in simple weapons, unarmored defense, and light armor.
Expert Will saves.

Charisma is your casting attribute.

1
Ancestry and background, initial proficiencies, occult spellcasting, eldritch blast, Bargain Spells, Otherworldly Coercion.
.
2
Warlock feat, skill feat
3
Double Deal, general feat
4
Warlock feat, skill feat
5
Lesser Eldritch Invocation, ability boosts, ancestry feat, skill increase
6
Warlock feat, skill feat
7
Triple Treaty, expert spellcaster, general feat, skill increase
8
Warlock feat, skill feat
9
Greater Eldritch Invocation, ancestry feat, great fortitude, resolve, skill increase
10
Ability Boost, Warlock feat, skill feat
11
Tetrad Transaction, Warlock weapon expertise, general feat, skill increase
12
Warlock feat, skill feat
13
Greater Eldritch Invocation, ancestry feat, light armor expertise, skill increase
14
Warlock feat, skill feat
15
Penta-Pact, ability boosts, general feat, master spellcaster, skill increase
16
Warlock feat, skill feat
17
Dark Eldritch Invocation, ancestry feat, greater resolve, skill increase
18
Warlock feat, skill feat
19
Hex-Haggle, General feat, legendary spellcaster, skill increase
20
Ability Boost, Warlock feat, skill feat

Bargain Spells
Warlocks never put in the time to get spell slots like other mages, but instead just "borrow" the power of others. Warlocks can make a bargains with all manner of otherworldly creatures allowing them to access a wide variety of powers. These pacts are usually short lived, as the creatures do not like to have their powers stolen, but there are many fish in the multi-verse.
When you do your daily presentation, choose any level 1 focus spell. Since this power is not really yours, you do not need to meet any prerequisite. You have that as your Bargained Spell until you do another daily preparation.
You start with a focus pool of 3 Focus Point.

Duo-Deal: You can have 2 Bargained Spells at once. When you refocus you can gain 2 focus points, or you can swap one of your Bargained spells.

Triple-Treaty: You can have 3 Bargained Spells at once. When you refocus, you regain all 3 focus, or gain 1 and swap one of your Bargained spells.

Tetrad-Transaction: You can have 4 Bargained Spells at once. Once per day, you can spend 3 actions to regain a focus point.

Penta-Pact: You can have 5 Bargained Spells at once. Once per day, you can spend 2 actions to regain a focus point. This is in addition to Tetrad-Transaction.

Hex-Haggle: You can have 6 Bargained Spells at once. Once per day, you can spend 1 actions to regain a focus point. This is in addition to your other abilities.

Otherworldly Coercion: Choose one of the following methods of gaining power.
*Binder: You twist your soul into a chain, and bind outsiders into doing your bidding. You can also drag them into your plane of existence. You can cast the Summon … spells at-will. Creatures you summon are bound by ethereal chains, giving them a -3 conditional penalty to all checks and DC’s, cannot cast any spells, and cannot be more than 30’ away from you. If you do not spend an action to sustain the creature, it does not disappear but is free to act as it pleases, and will usually be hostile towards you. If you die, the chains fall off and the creature remains on this plane and is free to do as it pleases.
*Fearmonger (not good): You can create a weapon capable of cutting spirits (force damage), and threatening them to do your bidding. You are expert in Intimidation, and in all martial melee weapons.
*Contract (not chaotic): You create lawful binding contract. You gain training in diplomacy. You can create these contracts with mortal creatures as well. Creatures must understand the contract and willingly sign for it to take effect. The contract last a number of days equal to your Warlock level. If a creature tries to break the contract, they must first succeed on a Will save. They take damage equal to twice your warlock level unless they critically succeed. The damage increases to 5 times your warlock level if it is a written contract, and 10 times if it is written in their own blood.
*Trickster (not lawful): You borrow the power without asking, and pass the blame off on someone else. You gain training in Thievery and expert is Deception. When you cast a spell, you can choose an adjacent creature to be the source of the spell.

Eldritch Blast
You gain the Eldritch Blast Cantrip, and can select 1 Lesser Eldritch Invocation from the list. You gain additional Invocations according to the level chart. You can not take the same invocation more than once. Invocations stack, and you can choose not to use them.

Eldritch Blast
Attack, Cantrip, Evocation.
Traditions Occult
Cast (1 actions) verbal
Range 30 feet; Targets 1 creature or object
A beam of crackling energy streaks toward a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a success, the target takes 1d4+1 force damage. Damage is doubled on a critical success, and half damage on a failure.
(Heighted +1) Increase the damage by 1d4+1

Least Eldritch Invocation
Choose one of the following adjustments to Eldritch Blast. You may choose not to use it.
*Agile: MAP is -4/-8 instead of normal.
*Reach: Increase the range to 60’.
*Glare: You can shoot your eldritch blast out of your eyes with just a glance. It loses the Verbal attribute.
*Admixture: Before you cast, you can spend an extra action and choose any damage type. On a success you deal 1 persistent damage of that type. 2 in a critical success. You can only choose good, lawful, evil, or chaotic if you are that alignment.
*Draining: On a critical success, you gain temporary hit points equal to half the rolled damage (before doubling). These last for 1 minute.
*Hexing: When you hit a creature you mark it with a hex. Increase the damage to 1d6 against that target for 1 minute.

Lesser Eldritch Invocation:
Choose one of the following adjustments to Eldritch Blast. You may also chose a Least one.
*Spear (Prerequisite Reach): Increase the range by 100’’.
*Lesser Chain: If you are successful with eldrich blast, you can use an action to target a second creature within range. This counts as the same attack for MAP. You can only do this once.
*Spray: Attack each creature in a 15’ cone. If you have also have Reach, increase the cone by 5’.
*Repelling: When you score a critical success, you push the target 5’ away from you.
*Slowing The target makes a Fort saving throw, if it fails, it is slowed 1. Slowed 2 on a critical failure.
*Frightful The target makes a Will saving throw, if it fails, it is frightened 1. Frightened 2 on a critical failure.

Greater Eldritch Invocation
*Lance (Prerequisite Spear): Increase the range to 200'
*Eldritch Doom: You deal damage equal to your eldritch blast to any number of creatures you choose within a 20ft radius. Targets may attempt a basic reflex save.
*Greater Chain (prereq: lesser chain): If you where successful against the first 2 creatures with Eldrich Cain, you can target a third. You can only target a creature once.
*Greater Repelling: You can push 5’ on a success, and 10’ on a critical success.
*Greater Cone: Increase the cone to 30’.

Dark Eldritch Invocation:
*Inescapable (Prerequisite Lance): Increase the range to sight.
*Dark Chain (prereq: greater chain): There is no limit to the number of creatures you can target in your chain. You can still only target a creature once.
*Dark Repelling: You can push 5’ on a failure, and 10’ on a success, and 20’ on a critical success.
*Dark Cone: Increase the cone to 60’.
*Stunning Blast (slowing blast): The target makes a Fort saving throw, if it fails, it is stunned 1. Stunned 2 on a critical failure.

Feats : (plenty of ideas from 5e and 3.5 to add.)


Scott wynn wrote:

I normally don't double dip threads but I've seen more posts here than conversions...anyway

Hello Pathfinder 2 fans I have been working on a conversation of the 5e style Warlock. Other than completing the feat list, it's ready for public consumption.

Main design goals:

1)A different kind of caster
2)Eldritch Blast as the core mechanic but not pew pew
3)Pacts are meaningfull choices that completely change how you play your lock.

I would love to hear your feedback

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuboMlSYMDAS4yztgVHNe7up4MkX2TDUNnPRSMO 4xkw/edit?usp=drivesdk

Not sure why the link didn't work try this

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuboMlSYMDAS4yztgVHNe7up4MkX2TDUNnPRSMO 4xkw/edit?usp=drivesdk


Scott wynn wrote:
Scott wynn wrote:

I normally don't double dip threads but I've seen more posts here than conversions...anyway

Hello Pathfinder 2 fans I have been working on a conversation of the 5e style Warlock. Other than completing the feat list, it's ready for public consumption.

Main design goals:

1)A different kind of caster
2)Eldritch Blast as the core mechanic but not pew pew
3)Pacts are meaningfull choices that completely change how you play your lock.

I would love to hear your feedback

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuboMlSYMDAS4yztgVHNe7up4MkX2TDUNnPRSMO 4xkw/edit?usp=drivesdk

Not sure why the link didn't work try this

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PuboMlSYMDAS4yztgVHNe7up4MkX2TDUNnPRSMO 4xkw/edit?usp=drivesdk

There is still an extra space in the link.


I just realized there's two different warlocks in this very thread...

@Scott wynn Just hyperlink your google doc. Easier for everyone that way (if you don't know how, click the "show" button under the text box).


Paizo automatically adds extra spaces to URLs unless they're formatted as hyperlinks. You can also copy it into your bar, delete the space, and then hit enter.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Conversions / Warlock 5e ---> Pathfinder 2 All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Conversions