Twin Takedown and Sneak Attack: Ranger with Rogue Dedication: Can be combined?


Rules Discussion


As the title says, can a Ranger with Rogue Dedication combine a Twin Takedown with Sneak Attack if the target (Hunted Prey) is flat-footed?

I'm using my Animal Companion(Cat) as its Support action to make the target flat-footed. Sneak Attack says if the target is flat-footed to get some Precision Damage and Twin Takedown allows me to use one action for two Strikes.

Is the above situation plausible?


There is no limit on how many times you can deal sneak attack damage. As long as they are flat footed, and you have the right weapon.

So hit twice, deal 2*1d4.
Hit 5 times (twin takedown + haste), deal 5*1d4.

Just keep in mind it gets harder to hit each attack. And twin takedown is 1/turn.


Sneak Attack from a Rogue (or Rogue MCD in this instance) always works if your attack meets the requirements, generally the right type of weapon & the opponent be flat-footed (and hopefully not having resistance/immunity to precision damage). Some options expand this, i.e. Magical Trickster, but these don't change the default.

So if you're using the proper weapons and your opponent is flat-footed (w/ no special defensive ability to allay that) the Sneak Attack should work no matter what feats you use to perform the Strikes. I think Rogue MCD for Sneak Attack is a solid addition to most warrior builds (though so are caster MCDs!)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Don't forget to look for the ranger flurrying feats that reduce MAP, and make sure you're using an agile weapon!

Shadow Lodge

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wynlyndd wrote:

As the title says, can a Ranger with Rogue Dedication combine a Twin Takedown with Sneak Attack if the target (Hunted Prey) is flat-footed?

I'm using my Animal Companion(Cat) as its Support action to make the target flat-footed. Sneak Attack says if the target is flat-footed to get some Precision Damage and Twin Takedown allows me to use one action for two Strikes.

Is the above situation plausible?

This technically works, but doesn't seem plausible in most situations:
  • First, Twin Takedown only works against your marked target, so you need to spend an action to Hunt Prey first.
  • Second, getting the Support Bonus from your Cat requires you to command your companion to provide this specific benefit, so there's another action lost (also note that your companion can't attack in any round it uses it's Support ability).
  • Finally, the actual benefit from the cat only kicks in after you actually hit once, so the target is not automatically flat footed against your first attack (though, as long as you hit at least once per round, you can keep it permanently flat footed for the rest of the fight if it can't kill or avoid your companion).

I looked into this for my Rogue and finally concluded it wasn't worth the effort (plus the complication of needing a weapon in your offhand all the time): Any fight long enough for you spend all these actions is probably a fight where your cat is going to die.


Wouldn't it be much more effective to have a bear companion and actually flank with it while it's using its support ability? I don't see a rule stating that a supporting animal companion can't be used for flanking. That way, you'd get another d8 on top of sneak attack.

Becomes even easier to do once you get Side by Side at leve l2.

Shadow Lodge

Blave wrote:

Wouldn't it be much more effective to have a bear companion and actually flank with it while it's using its support ability? I don't see a rule stating that a supporting animal companion can't be used for flanking. That way, you'd get another d8 on top of sneak attack.

Becomes even easier to do once you get Side by Side at leve l2.

The geography won't always allow for actual flanking (such as a pair of opponents with their backs to a wall), which is what makes the Cat bonus so nice: It just takes so many actions to get set up...

That being said, when I was looking into the Ranger Archetype for my rogue, the fact that I could get the Gang Up feat at level 6 instead of my second Ranger feat kinda put the final nail in that idea's coffin...

Now, I could see Rogue + Short Bow + Ranger Archetype + Cat Companion + Hunted Shot as a Ranged Sneak Attack build: Being possibly able to attack without moving makes a significant difference in the action economy.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
wynlyndd wrote:

As the title says, can a Ranger with Rogue Dedication combine a Twin Takedown with Sneak Attack if the target (Hunted Prey) is flat-footed?

I'm using my Animal Companion(Cat) as its Support action to make the target flat-footed. Sneak Attack says if the target is flat-footed to get some Precision Damage and Twin Takedown allows me to use one action for two Strikes.

Is the above situation plausible?

This technically works, but doesn't seem plausible in most situations:[list]
  • First, Twin Takedown only works against your marked target, so you need to spend an action to Hunt Prey first.
  • One think to note is any ranger worth their salt will already have their target marked before combat begins, except in situations in which the party is ambushed (and even then a lot of the time still)

    Shadow Lodge

    Malk_Content wrote:
    Taja the Barbarian wrote:
    wynlyndd wrote:

    As the title says, can a Ranger with Rogue Dedication combine a Twin Takedown with Sneak Attack if the target (Hunted Prey) is flat-footed?

    I'm using my Animal Companion(Cat) as its Support action to make the target flat-footed. Sneak Attack says if the target is flat-footed to get some Precision Damage and Twin Takedown allows me to use one action for two Strikes.

    Is the above situation plausible?

    This technically works, but doesn't seem plausible in most situations:[list]
  • First, Twin Takedown only works against your marked target, so you need to spend an action to Hunt Prey first.
  • One think to note is any ranger worth their salt will already have their target marked before combat begins, except in situations in which the party is ambushed (and even then a lot of the time still)

    So far, most of the encounters our group has had have jumped right to combat, so pre-hunting hasn't been an option most of the time. Even when it is, that's only helpful for your first target of the fight (which might die before you even get to act, or you might not be able to reach in the first round as a melee character) and you are still taking two actions to set up your combo on the next target (and the one after that, and the one after that, etc.).

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