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Barbarianwith dragon instinct got a 1d6/lvl aoe dmg every hour by lvl 6.

If you use it before an hour has passes you simply got 1d6/2 lvl.

Imho, you should try to make some comparison between classes.

If you want to deal dmg I suggest you to go for a dps class with higher attack ratio, them move on cleric for support ( heroism and higher weapon dice ).

The Best would be fighter + cleric dedication.


K1 wrote:

Barbarianwith dragon instinct got a 1d6/lvl aoe dmg every hour by lvl 6.

If you use it before an hour has passes you simply got 1d6/2 lvl.

Imho, you should try to make some comparison between classes.

If you want to deal dmg I suggest you to go for a dps class with higher attack ratio, them move on cleric for support ( heroism and higher weapon dice ).

The Best would be fighter + cleric dedication.

Hmm my Cleric has fighter dedication. Right but how likely is the barbarian to land on his turn? Comparing a Warpriest to a martial seems like a fair comparison.


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I started planning out a Iomeadean Warpriest build all the way up to 20.

I planned a much more defensive one making use of various Shield Feats from both Champion and cleric to make a tough shield that helps protect allies eventually as well.

Here is their build skeleton.

Despite having a relatively low Wis the character uses Assurance: Medicine for healing from Battle Medicine.

Clearly quite a bit different than yours which is quite neat. Hopefully you see something interesting/useful though.


Pirate Rob wrote:

I started planning out a Iomeadean Warpriest build all the way up to 20.

I planned a much more defensive one making use of various Shield Feats from both Champion and cleric to make a tough shield that helps protect allies eventually as well.

Here is their build skeleton.

Despite having a relatively low Wis the character uses Assurance: Medicine for healing from Battle Medicine.

Clearly quite a bit different than yours which is quite neat. Hopefully you see something interesting/useful though.

I couldn't find your attribute allocation?


Pirate Rob wrote:

I started planning out a Iomeadean Warpriest build all the way up to 20.

I planned a much more defensive one making use of various Shield Feats from both Champion and cleric to make a tough shield that helps protect allies eventually as well.

Here is their build skeleton.

Despite having a relatively low Wis the character uses Assurance: Medicine for healing from Battle Medicine.

Clearly quite a bit different than yours which is quite neat. Hopefully you see something interesting/useful though.

Very interesting build, I wanted my spells to still be viable that's why I didn't tank the Wisdom, originally my plan was to also tank Wisdom but then I did find some spells on the Divine list I liked. Harm in particular being a single action with my melee weapon was a nice damage increase vs a boss. Other spells like Flame Strike are nice vs a bunch of mooks and the likelyhood of landing is not too bad at all.


Squiggit wrote:
The problem with armor is right now the only way to gain Expert in armor is Champion, which has thematic baggage attached to it (unless you agree with my weird interpretation that you can simply fail to qualify for a cause and ignore that part of the dedication).

I look at it like this:

You want to take Champion MCD with Cause appropriate to you and your Deity's Alignment. That Cause/Tenet isn't written yet, but we don't need to care about what it positively offers if you don't take Cause/Tenet-specific Feats (which don't exist now).

What it negatively offers is Anathema appropriate to Cause/Tenet, which we don't know details of (because it isn't written yet). But since what violating Anathema does is turn off your Focus/Devotion spells and Divine Ally, if we don't take those Feats, then we can just assume we are in permanent violation of Cause/Tenet, but we don't have any abilities which are lost by that.

So only grabbing Champion MCD Feats related to Armor, HP Feat, and generic Champion Feats that don't involve Focus/Divine Ally, like Divine Grace, AoO, Quick Block, and Divine Wall, we can know that WHATEVER the future Alignment Cause/Tenet Anathema are, we aren't gaining any benefit that would be disallowed, i.e. whatever we are doing would be legal regardless of the details of how our chosen Cause/Tenet is written, since we are sticking to only generic Champion/MCD feats.

Doing that with Champion BASE Class is tougher, because it's premised on getting more Cause/Tenet-specific abilities "baked in", like Reaction and Divine Ally, and those aren't yet written for other Causes/Tenets, and you would also miss out on having access to any base Class Feats for own Cause/Tenet. But for people looking at MCD for relatively limited purposes, I don't see any problem with the approach I layed out above.

Of course, as a Cleric, you are going to be following Deity part of Anathema anyways, and keeping alignment within bounds, etc, but in terms of the potential of falling VS more particular Champion Anathema, the problem can be avoided just by sticking to generic Champion Feats.


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Atalius wrote:

I couldn't find your attribute allocation?

E1-4

Stats at level 1:

Str 16
Con 16
Dex 10
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 14


oholoko wrote:
Atalius wrote:
Anyone know the likelyhood of criting at level 12 with a +24 to attack roll Vs a monster one level higher than me? Trying to calculate how likely the Scythe D10 Deadly would work. Thanks for your help.

Okay let's first check what +24 entails.

+4 str(16+2+1= 19)
+2 item
+16 expert(12+4)
+2 status(Heroism)

So you can probably wiggle 1 to 4 more from circumstance(Help action) and -2 from flank.

37 With a +24 to hit here you only crit on a 20 so 5%(even with a +25 if you get both flank and help you will be stuck with 5%)
34 With a +24 to hit you only crit on a 20 5% too(With a +25 from help you can crit on a 19 too, and finally with flank you can probably get to crit on a 17 what is pretty good)
33 With a 24 to hit you crit on a 10%( with +24 you get 15%, and with flank 25%)
31 This one is quite easy to crit so no need to calculate it.

Thanks for this very helpful, I can demoralize for 1 round so that helps a bit. Do you recommend any other debuffs I could throw on the enemy to soften him up for the duration of the fight? I have access to Goblin Pox as a Cleric of Urgathoa, would that be something I could try to cast against a boss to help slightly lower his AC for the latter rounds of combat?


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You can definitely go with a warrior's training ring, for a +4 circumstance per day.

A lvl 13 blue dragon has 34 ac, so you will crit with a +24 on a natural 20.

The heroism then will be a waste on you.

Apart from that, you only have to use your actions to flank him, eventually raise shield, and attack.

I wouldn't attack with the second attack, so maybe you could consider taking fighter lvls to get power attack instead, if you have a 2h, Or eventually double slice if you have 1h and shield.

I wouldn't demoralize.

About the help action, if your DM stick with a meaningless dc of 20, go for it ( do not expect other melee to to the same, because their reactions could be useful ). If the dc is = to the challenge, then you have to decide.

Personally I wouldn't go for it unless i am with a help check template. Or ofc I am playing a bard, or with a bard dedication.

Remember also that you will eventually have to heal.


Pirate Rob wrote:
Atalius wrote:

I couldn't find your attribute allocation?

E1-4

Stats at level 1:

Str 16
Con 16
Dex 10
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 14

Numbers like this would be great for Channel Smite wouldn't they? With the lowered Wisdom you don't need to worry about landing Harm on its own, the chances of enemy succeeding on a save vs Harm are pretty high so this is pretty good. My build 8 have the higher Wisdom so I can land Castdown with some solid success.


I was considering adjusting starting stats to yours:

Half-Elf
Str 16
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 14

Adjust the game plan, but not sure if this is viable hopefully you all can chime in here. But the idea would be to grab either Sorc dedication or Bard dedication at 2/4 in order to get True Strike, perhaps Mirror image and later Haste. Sorc route could give me Bespell Weapon, but I think I would rather get Lingering composition and try to get Dirge of Doom at level 12 (earliest I can get it?). This would be for a Cleric of Urgathoa with a favored weapon of a Scythe, I would be surrendering Castdown from my original build I figure he has a trip weapon and using Harm to trip may be a bit redundant. I was thinking with the Deadly D10 Scythe a True Strike + Channel Smite may be pretty solid. Later on when I can get Dirge that constant -1 to all checks will further assist in my ability to land crits. Since I am very new to MCing can I get everyone's opinion on whether this is do-able?

Level 1:
Ancestry feat: Natural ambition - Harming Hands
Background: Farmhand
Deity: Urgathoa
First Doctrine: Warpriest (trained in light and medium armor)

Level 2:
Class feat: Bard Dedication (instead of Emblazoned Symbol)
Skill feat: Intimidating Glare

Level 3:
Skill Increase: Athletics (expert)
General feat: Incredible Initiative
Second Doctrine: Expert proficiency in Fort saves

Level 4:
Class feat: Basic Bard Spellcasting (instead of Domain Initiate Touch of Undeath)
Skill feat: Intimidating Prowess

Level 5:
Ancestry feat: Clever Improviser
Ability boosts: Str, Dex, Con, Cha
Skill increase: Medicine (expert)

Level 6:
Class feat: Channel Smite (instead of Castdown)
Skill feat: Titan Wrestler

Level 7:
General feat: Toughness
Skill increase: Athletics (master)

Level 8:
Class feat: Basic Muses Whispers (instead of Emblazoned Energy)
Skill feat: Battle Medicine

Level 9:
Ancestry Feat: Multitalented (Fighter Dedication)
Skill increae: Medicine (master)

Level 10:
Ability Boosts: Str, Con, Wis, Cha
Class feat: Fighter Dedication AOO

Level 12:
Class feat: Advanced Muses Whispers (Dirge of Doom)

Campaign goes to level 20, just for the purposes of this post build goes to level 12 for dedications, after this would be Cleric levels throughout.

My hopes are to be able to snatch a few things here, True Strike, Haste, Lingering Composition and Dirge of Doom. I'm sacrifing my level 2/4/8 class feat slots which means I lose out on 1D4 damage and Touch of Undeath.


So... going to the channel smite discussion. I think it's a bit of a trap, and let me explain my logic here:
* The damage itself, if you get it to land, is okay, 1d10 for every 2 caster levels tracks with moderately damaging spells, but it's not exceptional. You add weapon damage dice, which probably places it in the "good" damage category.
* Your chances to hit are bad, this can be mitigated though, you can pump your strength and get yourself a good weapon. This probably puts you on par with a martial's chance to hit if you also add a buff spell, but not a fighter's.

So here's the real question. You've sunk a lot of resources into "getting good" at using Channel Smite, which is going to do average-ish damage as compared to other blasters, but it does circumvent saving throws! *BUT* what else are you good at doing? Pretty much nothing. You've had to tank your wisdom, so any other targetted debuffs are going to be bad, and your regular strikes are still pretty subpar when compared to other martials. You can still buff, but so can any other cleric.

So, you want to be a cleric that "harms", fine, but instead of going channel smite, boost your Wisdom, and use damage spells that use spell attack rolls instead. Some examples that are rather good:
* Searing Light: 3rd level, 5d6 fire and 5d6 good. Strictly better than channel smite against evil creatures.
* Spiritual Weapon: 1d8+stat bonus plus 1d8 per 2 spell levels as an attack up to 3 times a round (sustain multiple times) using MAP. Assuming 2 attacks per round, this is comparable to what you'll get from Channel Smite.
* Fire Ray (domain): 2d6/spell level, with a critical causing some significant persistent damage. Minus the weapon damage, strictly better than channel smite, plus a focus spell so reusable.
* Hurtling Stone (domain): 1d6/spell level that adds strength. Worse than channel smite, but okayish damage, plus a focus spell so reusable.
* Moonbeam (domain): 1d6/spell level fire damage. Worse than channel smite, but okayish damage, plus a focus spell so reusable.

Sure, the list is relatively small, but keep in mind, with a high Wisdom, you *still* have all the other options for regular blasting cleric spells, of which there are many, because your DCs are going to be a lot better. This includes using harm *outside* of channel smite.

I'm not poo-poo'ing on the Harm Cleric build, I just think the way to go if you want to do it is using Wisdom and not trying to build around Channel Smite.


Interesting, I worked out the numbers I'd be slightly more accurate than a fighter with True Strike and Heroism active. The chances of Channel Smite landing are good, at level 12 we are talking 3D12+4 (+2 striking rune)+6D10. Since I get two chances there is a solid chance of criting a boss here for 2X damage + bonus from Deadly. With Dirge of Doom my chances just got better. Landing two of these channel smites in successive rounds could very well reduce the bosses health by 50% and the rest of my allies could very well do the other 50%.

Those examples are valid to a point, however Searing Light would eat a 3rd level slot. I would like to save my 3rd level slots for things like Heroism or Haste and just use my Harm from Harming Font for Channel Smite. With 4 Harms per day it should be more than adequate vs a daily boss? Vs mooks I have my trip weapon and normal damage from it.


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Couldn't you do the same with either Searing Light or Fire Ray (conditional on resistances of course...)? Your chances of critical will actually be higher, but more importantly, there's a *lot* more you can also do. Just some quick math:

Level 12 for greater striking: Average Damage: 52.5
Level 12 for 6th level searing ray: 8d6 fire, 8d6 good: Average Damage: 56

They basically do the same damage. More importantly, you can do *a lot* more with the high Wisdom vs. Strength, and your chances to hit will be higher as your proficiency with spell attacks outpaces weapon attacks.

That's kinda my point. The damage, as it turns out, is just on par with other damage options, and you're losing out on a lot of the other flexibility with Cleric


Also A Cleric of Urgothoa is such a boss, walking around giving people the evil eye, a fun lawful evil alignment, a versatile Scythe. Would mirror image be viable for him on the frontline?

Fire ray and the like are nice, but they are ranged options I prefer the front line. It is also a once per fight commodity, Searing Light is good vs fiends and undead, while Channel Smite is almost always good and I can use it multiple times. Channel Smite is pretty garbage if you don't have the right conditions I agree with you and I would never bother even getting it if I didn't have True Strike tbh, but I would only ever be using Channel Smite if:

1)Heroism is active.
2) Enemy is flanked.

Those two conditions would need to be met then I could True Strike. I like not suffering from MAP.


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Atalius wrote:

Also A Cleric of Urgothoa is such a boss, walking around giving people the evil eye, a fun lawful evil alignment, a versatile Scythe. Would mirror image be viable for him on the frontline?

Fire ray and the like are nice, but they are ranged options I prefer the front line. It is also a once per fight commodity, Searing Light is good vs fiends and undead, while Channel Smite is almost always good and I can use it multiple times. Channel Smite is pretty garbage if you don't have the right conditions I agree with you and I would never bother even getting it if I didn't have True Strike tbh, but I would only ever be using Channel Smite if:

1)Heroism is active.
2) Enemy is flanked.

Those two conditions would need to be met then I could True Strike. I like not suffering from MAP.

Note that "ranged" options in this edition benefit from everything melee options do. You get flanking when using a ranged spell attack if you're in a flanking position. Of course, they're still open to AoOs, which Channel Smite is not, I'll grant you that.

You do what you want, obviously. Just trying to point out that with a low Wisdom, your options outside of when you have the ideal situation are going to be fairly limited :). It's probably worth putting some thought into what you do in those situations.


Worked out the numbers fighting a boss +1 CR, the chance of landing that True Strike with Channel Smite would be 87%. Those are good odds, if I were to attack and cast harm separately the enemy is likely going to save for half. Good to know Channel Smite isn't completely useless.

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