Ice Armor question.


Rules Questions


Yes, yet another question revolving around Ice Armor. I've searched and just can't find an answer. I'm relatively new to this system so please forgive my ignorance.

I'm looking over the spell and can't seem to make head nor tails about how this works.

I'm running a lvl 3 cleric wearing scale. Can I cast this over that? Does this give me a +6 bonus on top of the +5 from the scale mail?

Also, I understand it lasts 10 hours "or until destroyed." with a hardness of 0 and HP of 30 does that mean it is destroyed after I receive 30 damage or until something sunders it for 30 points?

Any assistance in this will be greatly appreciated.

The Exchange

It creates a suit of armor.

so no - it doesn't stack with your scale armor, you would need to remove your scale to put this on.

the "until destroyed" part is in reference to the fact that heat and fire attacks degrade the armor. So if you take 30 points of damage from a fireball, your armor melts completely. (whereas 29 points of fire damage would melt off 5 points of the armor bonus, leaving you with an Armor Bonus of 1 to your AC.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Ice Armor wrote:


Source Inner Sea Gods pg. 236, Pathfinder #38: Racing to Ruin pg. 71
School transmutation [cold, water]; Level bloodrager 1, cleric 1, druid 1, hunter 1, oracle 1, warpriest 1 (Gozreh)
Casting
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, F (5 gallons of water)
Effect
Range 0 ft.; see text
Effect a suit of armor made of ice
Duration 1 hour/level or until destroyed
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Description
You create a suit of armor made of ice. While cold to the touch, it does not harm the wearer, especially if worn over normal clothing (though it can hasten the effects of exposure in cold environments). It offers the same protection as a breastplate, except it has hardness 0 and 30 hit points. If the intended wearer is immersed in water when you cast this spell, you may form the armor around the wearer (who may be you); otherwise, the wearer must don the armor normally. Attacks against the wearer that create heat or fire degrade the armor, reducing its armor bonus by 1 for every 5 points of fire damage the wearer takes; when the armor’s bonus to AC reaches 0, the armor is destroyed and the spell ends. Because the ice is slightly buoyant, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Swim checks, except when swimming downward. Druids can wear ice armor without penalty.

1) It creates a suit of armor. You benefit from a single suit of armor, so you either get the benefits of the ice breastplate or the scale armor. Note that you get the penalities of both if worn at the same time.

2) It lasts 1 hour/level, not 10 hours. At third level it lasts 3 hours. The "until destroyed" part is in reference to fire damage, as Hobbs said or if it is destroyed by other attacks targeted at it (sundering it, disintegrate, etc.).

3) Hardness and damage are for sunder attempts and other attacks aimed at the armor. Attacks against you (with the exception of fire damage) don't degrade it.


Unless the target of the spell is immersed in water you can not form the armor around the target. It creates a breastplate out of ice which has to be put on normally.

Ice Armor wrote:
If the intended wearer is immersed in water when you cast this spell, you may form the armor around the wearer (who may be you); otherwise the wearer must don the armor normally.

Armor bonuses do not stack. So, if you did form the armor around someone who was already wearing scale then you would only benefit from the +6 armor bonus.

Glossary-Bonuses wrote:

Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.

The important aspect of bonus types is that two bonuses of the same type don’t generally stack. With the exception of dodge bonuses, most circumstance bonuses, and racial bonuses, only the better bonus of a given type works. Bonuses without a type always stack, unless they are from the same source.

however, penalties do stack. A breastplate has an armor check penalty of -4. Scale mail also has an armor check penalty of -4, so you would suffer a total armor check penalty of -8 which would apply to all dex and str based skill checks. The ice armor spell does give a +2 circumstance bonus to swim checks so it would only be at a -6.

Glossary-Penalties wrote:
Penalties are numerical values that are subtracted from a check or statistical score. Penalties do not have a type and most penalties stack with one another.

As for damage. Normally armor only takes damage if an effect specifically damages armor you're wearing. Unless something states otherwise (such as an attempted sunder attempt) your gear generally doesn't get damaged. One such instance when gear can become damaged is when you roll a natural 1 on a saving throw against a spell.

Damaging Objects-Saving throws wrote:
Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt. If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.

However, the spell calls out that the armor will also take damage from spells and effects that deal fire and/or heat damage.

Ice Armor wrote:
Attacks against the wearer that create heat or fire degrade the armor, reducing its armor bonus by 1 for every 5 points of fire damage the wearer takes; when the armor’s bonus to AC reaches 0, the armor is destroyed and the spell ends.

So, this is an additional set of situations in which the armor can take damage.

For all practical purposes you can just think of it as creating a breastplate out of ice that you can put on/take off, same as a normal breastplate and the only time it's going to take damage when normal armor wouldn't, is when you get hit with some sort of fire based attack.

I hope this answers your questions :)

I've tried to quote the relevant rules for clarity.


LordKailas wrote:
...however, penalties do stack. A breastplate has an armor check penalty of -4. Scale mail also has an armor check penalty of -4, so you would suffer a total armor check penalty of -8 which would apply to all dex and str based skill checks...

Assuming that your DM allows you to wear two sets of armor, which is rather silly.


You guys are awesome and I'm a fool. I think I really just over thought this. As I read your posts, it all made a lot more sense.

Thanks all


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Quixote wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
...however, penalties do stack. A breastplate has an armor check penalty of -4. Scale mail also has an armor check penalty of -4, so you would suffer a total armor check penalty of -8 which would apply to all dex and str based skill checks...
Assuming that your DM allows you to wear two sets of armor, which is rather silly.

It depends on the armor types involved -- but I would definitely go with not allowing it unless the armor types involved specifically allow it. See armored kilt and armored coat for examples.


David knott 242 wrote:


It depends on the armor types involved...

Hence why I said "sets". A breastplate and a suit of scale mail are both meant to cover your torso, with maybe some greaves and gauntlets. Alternate rules about piecemeal armor or similar things is an entirely different can of worms.


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warbear wrote:

You guys are awesome and I'm a fool. I think I really just over thought this. As I read your posts, it all made a lot more sense.

Thanks all

Not at all. In a system with another spell called mage armor that doesn't work like armor at all--and don't get me started on shield--there's bound to be some confusion.

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