Where am I from?


Rules Discussion


Some or all of the Lost Omens World Guides archetypes are Uncommon, with Access like "You are from Absalom." Outside PFS, is there any decent definition of "where you're from"? Do I have to have been born in Absalom to be from there? Or to have lived there in recent years? Or both? If it's not by birth, can I be from more than one area?


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This is one of those "Talk to your GM" questions.


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Since it's Uncommon it's purely at your GM's discretion from what I understand.

As a GM, I would probably say you don't have to be born there, but you can only benefit mechanically from "You are from X" from 1 location.


Claxon wrote:
Since it's Uncommon it's purely at your GM's discretion from what I understand.

The dedication is Uncommon. The quality of being from Absalom does not have a defined rarity, AFAIK. The former is what makes the latter interesting, but the latter is what I'm asking about.

Claxon wrote:
As a GM, I would probably say you don't have to be born there, but you can only benefit mechanically from "You are from X" from 1 location.

My impression is that's the way it works in PFS. It seems to me this has the weird effect that if you're from, say, Absalom, and take the Pathfinder Agent Dedication which is therefore accessible to you, and then you move to Jalmerey, spend years there and want to take the Student of Perfection Dedication, you can---but only if you first retrain out of all your Pathfinder Agent feats and the dedication itself. The renunciation requirement feels immersion-breakingly unrealistic.

Exo-Guardians

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If you're looking for immersion and realism, PFS is not the place to go. An ordinary home-game GM can allow whatever they think makes sense in context, without all the artificial restrictions of PFS.


And what the home GM thinks makes sense could end up the same as PFS, as Claxon demonstrated... :-)

I'd be happier if I even thought there existed at least one reasonable solution for a home GM to use that neither broke immersion nor made "from" requirements pointless.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Home is where your heart is!


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:


It seems to me this has the weird effect that if you're from, say, Absalom, and take the Pathfinder Agent Dedication which is therefore accessible to you, and then you move to Jalmerey, spend years there and want to take the Student of Perfection Dedication, you can---but only if you first retrain out of all your Pathfinder Agent feats and the dedication itself. The renunciation requirement feels immersion-breakingly unrealistic.

I view this as a different situation than PFS, though.

I don't play PFS, but I think part of the general premise is that any given season of PFS has your characters adventuring out of the same Pathfinder Lodge for the season. Thus, at no point would any character leave to spend years living in a different region between PFS adventures, unless the player chose to use a different character for the season than their original. If the player wanted to bring that character back for a different season, with the Student of Perfection stuff, I suspect PFS would handle it as your character going out and retraining - you aren't using your skills as a Pathfinder while you're training in the Houses of Perfection, so you lose the benefits of the Pathfinder Agent feats for the Student of Perfection feats.

In a home game, I don't see this coming up either. Generally, a campaign will play out over one to two years in-game, with maybe some exceptions (like Kingmaker), where you won't live somewhere long enough to count as being "From" that place for Dedication purposes. However, if the plot of the adventure called for the heroes to separate and train, learning new skills for several years while they prepared for the BBEG's forces, and your Pathfinder Agent went and spent those years training in the Houses of Perfection, then I would allow you to take the Student of Perfection Dedication (provided you had at least two other Pathfinder Agent feats).

Basically, for a home game, if it makes sense for the story, I'd allow the second regional dedication, but it would have to make sense in the narrative. If it didn't make sense, then I'd probably have you retrain it.

Does that help as an answer?

Liberty's Edge

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
My impression is that's the way it works in PFS. It seems to me this has the weird effect that if you're from, say, Absalom, and take the Pathfinder Agent Dedication which is therefore accessible to you, and then you move to Jalmerey, spend years there and want to take the Student of Perfection Dedication, you can---but only if you first retrain out of all your Pathfinder Agent feats and the dedication itself. The renunciation requirement feels immersion-breakingly unrealistic.

I’m not sure PFS even strives for immersion on that grand a scale, but instead for immersion on the scale of an adventure, a single season, or more rarely a particular inter-season metaplot.

For a home game I’m inclined to share Claxon’s approach of limiting a PC to one home region, but in a home game that’s far less important because your Pathfinder Agent, upon relocating to Jalmerey, could spend some of the years you speak of establishing connections that would unlock the new Dedication feat.

Silver Crusade

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In PFS you can spend Fame for a boon that allows you to be “from” an additional region, thus allowing a character from the Saga Lands who had taken the Runescarred archetype to also be able to take the Pathfinder Agent archetype, for instance.

Once the Lost Omens World Guide is added to additional resources, of course...


First, I think some people may be unclear whether I'm asking for PFS. I am not; I don't play PFS. I only mentioned it because while searching the forums to see if this question had already been asked/answered I came across references to their solution. (Incomplete references, based on Sober Caydenite's information about being 'from' multiple regions.) My apologies for any confusion caused.

Phntm888 wrote:
If the player wanted to bring that character back for a different season, with the Student of Perfection stuff, I suspect PFS would handle it as your character going out and retraining - you aren't using your skills as a Pathfinder while you're training in the Houses of Perfection, so you lose the benefits of the Pathfinder Agent feats for the Student of Perfection feats.

I suspect you are correct; also that this is how some GMs (Claxon) would probably handle it in their home games. And this is immersion-breaking for me. The PC undoubtedly has many feats they're not using during those years; what makes the Pathfinder Agent feats so fragile that disuse leads to losing them? And why doesn't it apply to the other PC, who spent those years intensively Crafting---thus also not using their Pathfinder Agent skills---whether in Absalom or elsewhere?

Phntm888 wrote:
In a home game, I don't see this coming up either. Generally, a campaign will play out over one to two years in-game, with maybe some exceptions (like Kingmaker), where you won't live somewhere long enough to count as being "From" that place for Dedication purposes.

It can come up in the backstory and build in a home game that starts at mid-levels.

Phntm888 wrote:
However, if the plot of the adventure called for the heroes to separate and train, learning new skills for several years while they prepared for the BBEG's forces, and your Pathfinder Agent went and spent those years training in the Houses of Perfection, then I would allow you to take the Student of Perfection Dedication (provided you had at least two other Pathfinder Agent feats).

The core of what I take from this is that you'd allow adding a new 'from' region (while keeping the old) if the character spends several years there. Then, since the PC is now 'from' Jalmeray, they can clearly take the Student of Perfection Dedication (provided the general dedication rules don't get in the way). If I'm reading you correctly there, that seems like a fine rule once the game starts. I'm still concerned about backstory/builds for games starting at mid-level, though.

Phntm888 wrote:
Basically, for a home game, if it makes sense for the story, I'd allow the second regional dedication, but it would have to make sense in the narrative. If it didn't make sense, then I'd probably have you retrain it.

Not sure what kind of "not making sense" scenarios you're thinking of here. You mean if you give the PCs a few years of downtime, and one of them takes off for Jalmeray for what you feel is insufficient in-character reason, then they have to retrain their agent dedication before getting a perfection dedication? I mean, if a PC takes off for Jalmeray for a few years when you haven't arranged downtime for them, obviously they've just taken themselves out of the campaign. If the world is due to end in few months and the people saving it go on a years-long vacation, then the world ends, oops....

Phntm888 wrote:
Does that help as an answer?

Depends on whether I understood it correctly ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It's pretty much entirely up to your GM. From the Lost Omens Character Guide

pg 9 wrote:

Access to Rules Elements

Sometimes, a stat block for an uncommon rules element
includes an Access entry that lists specific criteria. A
character who meets the criteria listed in the Access
entry, such as hailing from a particular locale or being
a member of a particular organization, gains access to
the rules element. For instance, a character from Taldor
gains access to the Keep Up Appearances feat (page 12),
even though it’s uncommon.

As always, the GM has the final say on how rare an
option is, who can access uncommon or rarer options, or
whether specific options are allowed in the game at all;
they may decide that a person’s upbringing makes sense
for a specific ancestry feat even if the character doesn’t
automatically qualify for access
, or they may decide that
same ancestry feat cannot be taken by anyone at all.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Some or all of the Lost Omens World Guides archetypes are Uncommon, with Access like "You are from Absalom." Outside PFS, is there any decent definition of "where you're from"? Do I have to have been born in Absalom to be from there? Or to have lived there in recent years? Or both? If it's not by birth, can I be from more than one area?

you have to be from there enough to convince your GM to allow you to use that material.

in all other contexts it is irrelevant.

Silver Crusade

Generally, PFS makes hard rules like the one I mentioned to clarify issues that are intended to be up to GM discretion. Sorry I wasn’t clearer in drawing that connection, which Vlorax made more cogently than I did. The rarity system for such issues just means you need to have a conversation with your GM, not that you can’t be a Lastwall Sentry who undertakes the path of Magic Warrior to better oppose the Whispering Tyrant.


You've mostly got it. My points can basically be summed up as "If you can justify it to me RP-wise, I'll allow it."

As for a new mid-level character background, the same thing applies. If you give me a good enough story, I'll allow it, provided I haven't already said no.

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