Determining the hardness / HP / BT of weapons and magical weapons

[The Only Sheet]

While TABLE 11–4: MATERIAL HARDNESS, HIT POINTS, AND BROKEN THRESHOLD on page 577 gives a general rules on the Hardness, Hit Points and Broken Threshold of materials, only the WHIP, the CLUB and the SWORD weapons are actually listed on that table.

1- Is there a more specific place where one can find the exact H/HP/BT of all weapons? Or are we supposed to eyeball it for all items? (each one individually with his/her own opinion on this topic)

2- Do Magical weapons have the same H/HP/BT as their non-magical versions?

Can someone clarify?
Thanks!!

The only Sheet

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious how the question arose in the absence of sundering.

[The Only Sheet]

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:

I don't have any answers for you, but I'm curious how the question arose in the absence of sundering.

Are you suggesting that they added rules for item hardness, hit points and broken threshold, only to have no use for such rules?

In any case, the reason I need this information is:

As a 3rd party publisher for PF2, I am adding Dynamic Play to TOS 2nd CORE edition, and I'm implementing all conditions (amongst other things) for Dynamic play.

While working on the "broken" condition, I added a way for users to Track (on the fly) the HP damage of their weapons - but then noticed I did not have that information in the Weapons table.

Hence my investigation on the matter!

TOS

[ofMars]

for #1, no, there is no precise rules on the hardness of individual weapons, though using that table it should be easy to extrapolate from examples. I understand this isn't super helpful, but currently the only items that mechanically take damage in encounter mode are shields and those do have the relevant info listed in their stat blocks. "Sunder" isn't a thing as far as I can tell.

To address #2, This is an interesting problem in that most higher level magic shields have stats of basic shield materials, making high level expensive shields horrible for doing a shield block - there doesn't seem to be a special material requirement for making stuff magical.

[TheAmazingRando]

ofMars wrote:

currently the only items that mechanically take damage in encounter mode are shields

Unless they're fighting a Black Pudding, which deals 2d6 acid damage to any metal or wooden weapon that strikes it, and, when attacking, deals acid damage to both the target and any armor/clothes they're wearing.

[The Only Sheet]

TheAmazingRando wrote:

Unless they're fighting a Black Pudding, which deals 2d6 acid damage to any metal or wooden weapon that strikes it, and, when attacking, deals acid damage to both the target and any armor/clothes they're wearing.

Ah there we go!

So we do need these values..

Yes, you can extrapolate the values, but as I said, everyone would have his own idea about them (i.e. is a Spear treated more like a Club, or a Dagger !? Or perhaps between a Club and a Dagger!?) ICKES!

This isn't always obvious.

[Currently] I extrapolated based mostly on the Weapon Groups (i.e. swords group have all the values of the 'sword' example in the table), but that is not always obvious...

I just wish they would have specified the values instead of letting us guess what it should be... :(

TOS

[ofMars]

I think for the purpose of getting the broken condition, a spear would be in the "thin wood" category, because even though the metal part of it would be harder to break, if you break the wood part, it's not a spear anymore. I get that it would be easier if it were precisely laid out like in pf1, though. Also, I find it a little silly that a simple door is listed as having the same hardness and hit points as a tree trunk

[The Only Sheet]

ofMars wrote:

I think for the purpose of getting the broken condition, a spear would be in the "thin wood" category, because even though the metal part of it would be harder to break, if you break the wood part, it's not a spear anymore. I get that it would be easier if it were precisely laid out like in pf1, though. Also, I find it a little silly that a simple door is listed as having the same hardness and hit points as a tree trunk

Yep, I tagged the Spear as a Club because of the shaft (although the shaft may be more like a sapling..!? I just dunno!).

Some may disagree and use alternative values. Hence my desire for an 'official' (clear cut) rule!!

I'm also in the dark about Magical Weapons...! (point #2)

TOS

[The Only Sheet]

Well, seems we have exhausted this topic - Should the values of Hardness, Hit Points and Broken Threshold be specified down the line for all weapons and magical weapons, please let me know so I can update my product accordingly - you can contact me as the admin of my domain TheOnlySheet.com - THANKS!!

TOS