bard + entertainer background and perform trained or expert


Rules Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Sorry if this is answered before, but since bard and entertainer both say you become trained in perform, and I think you can't become expert at level one right? So doesn't this punish an iconic combination? Can you become trained in something else when class and background overlap like that? There must be a bunch of other examples too.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Whenever your class gives you a trained proficiency in a skill you already have from your background, you get to chose another one that you're not trained in yet.

That's true for all combinations. Rogue gives you trained in stealth and (depending on your subclass / "racket" thievery e.g.). But if your background already gave you one of those, you don't get to go to expert immediately, you just get to pick another one to make "trained".

Your level one char is just not that proficient in anything yet, it'll get there soo enough! :)


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
blashimov wrote:
Sorry if this is answered before, but since bard and entertainer both say you become trained in perform, and I think you can't become expert at level one right? So doesn't this punish an iconic combination? Can you become trained in something else when class and background overlap like that? There must be a bunch of other examples too.

Check out CRB Page 60:

Pathfinder 2 Core Rulebook wrote:
If you gain the trained proficiency rank in a skill from your background and would then gain the trained proficiency rank in the same skill from your class at 1st level, you instead become trained in another skill of your choice.

Scarab Sages

Thanks so much all, especially the page number, not sure why I kept missing it when I looked.


An excellent and accurate answer, but I would like to raise rates. Could I, when creating a character, put in free skill points or already trained skills?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If I understand your question correctly, the answer is no. When you gain the option to become trained in a skill, that is not a point that can be used to raise a trained skill to expert.


Nimonys wrote:
An excellent and accurate answer, but I would like to raise rates. Could I, when creating a character, put in free skill points or already trained skills?

No. You need to wait for your first "skill increase".

Which is level 3 for most classes, 2 for rogue.

And level 7 before you can get master.
Level 15 for legendary.


Nimonys wrote:
An excellent and accurate answer, but I would like to raise rates. Could I, when creating a character, put in free skill points or already trained skills?

Generally if the book doesn't explicitly say that you get to do a thing, you don't get to do it. Probably about 70% of rules questions are a result of peoples brains making logical shortcuts. It helps to read the rules aa literally as possible.


blashimov wrote:
Sorry if this is answered before, but since bard and entertainer both say you become trained in perform, and I think you can't become expert at level one right? So doesn't this punish an iconic combination? Can you become trained in something else when class and background overlap like that? There must be a bunch of other examples too.

To elaborate on this for those using archives of Nethys, the rule for replacing a skill if your class already grants is in the top of the backgrounds section of the site. I have the book so I knew it was a rule but the site itself I had to scan a bit.

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