Alchemist Bombs, Damage, and Critical Hits

[Zhamer00]

Hi,

I have some questions about Alchemist Bombs, Damage, and Critical Hits. It seems I keep finding conflicting information in the core rule book. At least, that's how I am interpreting it.

Concerning Acid flask. Here's what Im looking at:

Core p451 - DOUBLING AND HALVING DAMAGE wrote:

Benefits you gain specifically from a critical hit, like the flaming weapon Rune’s persistent fire damage or the extra damage die from the fatal weapon trait, aren’t doubled.

Core p544 - Spash Trait wrote:

Most bombs also have the splash trait. When you use a thrown weapon with the splash trait, you don’t add your Strength modifier to the damage roll. If an attack with a splash weapon fails, succeeds, or critically succeeds, all creatures within 5 feet of the target (including the target) take the listed splash damage. On a failure (but not a critical failure), the target of the attack still takes the splash damage.

...
You don’t multiply splash damage on a critical hit.

For example, if you threw a lesser acid flask and hit your target, that creature would take 1d6 persistent acid damage and 1 acid splash damage. All other creatures within 5 feet of it would take 1 acid splash damage. On a critical hit, the target would take 2d6 persistent acid damage, but the splash damage would still be 1. If you missed, the target would take 1 splash damage. If you critically failed, no one would take any damage.

Core p544 - Acid Flask Description wrote:

This flask filled with corrosive acid deals 1 acid damage, the listed persistent acid damage, and the listed acid splash damage.

Core p545 - Lesser Acid Flask damage wrote:

It deals 1d6 persistent acid damage and 1 acid splash damage.

1) I thought persistent damage was not affected by critical hits. This conflicts with quotes from pages 451 vs 544.

2) In the Acid flask description, there is a simple acid damage (not the splash one) that is not listed in the example or the Lesser Acid Flask damage block.

Any idea?

[masda_gib]

1) Only damage that is specificly added on a critical hit is not multiplied. The persistant fire damage of the Flaming rune is only added on a crit (and therefore not doubled), the acid flasks persistant damage is its base damage (and gets doubled).

2) I would read it so that all versions of Acid flask deal 1 direct damage but different amounts of persistant and splash damage. Only the varying damages are listed for each version.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Zhamer00 wrote:

1) I thought persistent damage was not affected by critical hits. This conflicts with quotes from pages 451 vs 544.

As you quoted, things that you only get on a critical hit and splash damage are not doubled for a crit. (The latter presumably because it would be silly---you hit me so precisely the guy next to me was splashed with high precision?) Nowadays those are the only two categories not doubled. In particular, persistent and precision damage both double (unless they were triggered by the critical hit itself).

Zhamer00 wrote:

In the Acid flask description, there is a simple acid damage (not the splash one) that is not listed in the example or the Lesser Acid Flask damage block.

All type of acid flask deal 1 non-splash, non-persistent acid damage to the target. In order to save space they only put this in the initial description and not in each damage block. Is that what you mean?

[Zhamer00]

hmm... Thanks for the clarification.

That is somewhat where I was leaning but I didnt catch on to the details of flaming rune persistent damage. So let me write some examples for you to make sure I understand.

I hit a target with a lesser acid flask with a crit:
1) Target takes 2 acid damage immediately
2) Target and any creature within 5 feet takes 1 acid splash damage
3) at the end of the targets turn, they roll 2D6 for persistent acid damage and keep doing it until target succeeds a flat dc 15 check

So moving on to say lesser Alchemist’s Fire with a crit:
1) Target takes 2D8 fire damage immediately
2) Target and any creature within 5 feet takes 1 fire splash damage
3) at the end of the targets turn, they take 2 persistent fire damage and keep doing it until target succeeds a flat dc 15 check

Seem right?

[albadeon]

Zhamer00 wrote:

hmm... Thanks for the clarification.

That is somewhat where I was leaning but I didnt catch on to the details of flaming rune persistent damage. So let me write some examples for you to make sure I understand.

I hit a target with a lesser acid flask with a crit:
1) Target takes 2 acid damage immediately
2) Target and any creature within 5 feet takes 1 acid splash damage
3) at the end of the targets turn, they roll 2D6 for persistent acid damage and keep doing it until target succeeds a flat dc 15 check

So moving on to say lesser Alchemist’s Fire with a crit:
1) Target takes 2D8 fire damage immediately
2) Target and any creature within 5 feet takes 1 fire splash damage
3) at the end of the targets turn, they take 2 persistent fire damage and keep doing it until target succeeds a flat dc 15 check

Seem right?

Sound right, except your wording on acid flask point 3) seems to imply that you roll the 2d6 every round. I would not read it as such, instead, you roll the damage once and then they take that damage every round until they shake it off.

Edit: As Fuzzy-Wuzzy has pointed out below, I was wrong here, you do reroll every time.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

No, Zhamer00 is right, you do roll the 2d6 every round.

CRB page 621, Persistent Damage wrote:

Instead of taking persistent damage immediately, you take it at the end of each of your turns as long as you have the condition, rolling any damage dice anew each time. After you take persistent damage, roll a DC 15 flat check to see if you recover from the persistent damage. If you succeed, the condition ends.

So both examples look 100% to me.

[albadeon]

Hmm, okay, my bad.

[Zhamer00]

Thanks everyone!

Just one more question about splash. Is it a burst or emanation?

[BellyBeard]

Zhamer00 wrote:

Thanks everyone!

Just one more question about splash. Is it a burst or emanation?

Emanation. Which bugs some people, as it covers more area when targeting a larger foe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯