First some background, I came from D&D 5e and with that I am having to adapt and homebrew stuff for my players that like some races and subclasses from the previous games that I was the game master, I already did the Dragonborn and have plans to do the Goliath in the future.
But for now I am making the Aarakocra, the flying chicken bird ancestry, and have to find a way to make it balanced compared to the other ancestries.
This is what I tried so far:
Ancestry Attributes
Hit Points: 4. Size: Medium Speed 20 feetAbility Boosts
Dexterity, Wisdom, FreeAbility Flaw
ConstituitionLanguages
Common, ChickenAdditional languages equal to your Intelligence modifier (if it’s positive). Choose from Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits
Chicken, HumanoidFlying
You can soar through the air, gaining a fly Speed equal to its Speed or 30 feet, whichever is greater, you can't wear medium or heavy armor unless it was modified to accommodate the wings. If you are encumbered reduce the fly speed by half.
Similar to the elf but with 2 less Hit Point at level 1 and slow ground speed but with unlimited flying at lvl 1.
Ancestry Attributes
Hit Points: 6. Size: Medium Speed 20 feetAbility Boosts
Dexterity, Wisdom, FreeAbility Flaw
Constituition, StrengthLanguages
Common, ChickenAdditional languages equal to your Intelligence modifier (if it’s positive). Choose from Dwarven, Elven, Gnomish, Goblin, and any other languages to which you have access (such as the languages prevalent in your region).
Traits
Chicken, HumanoidFlying
You can soar through the air, gaining a fly Speed equal to its Speed or 30 feet, whichever is greater, you can't wear medium or heavy armor unless it was modified to accommodate the wings. If you are encumbered reduce the fly speed by half.
Higher Ancestry hit points but with an extra flaw, more bulky at lvl 1 but worse at the long run.
Other stuff that I thought was remove the flying at lvl 1 and give some form of glide or feather fall, but it doens't feel quite right for it not having flying, so I would like suggestions of how to make it work.
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Suggestions:
Starting with Gliding ability is certainly viable option to consider.
When they get to flying, don't start out their flying speed at 30. Start it off at 20 or 25 at the most.
At least starting out, repercussions of being encumbered or wearing an armor with any movement penalty by default should mean, unable to fly, not speed reduced by half. [They moved away from the speed reduced by fraction mechanism, so I would avoid it if you are trying to remain in the feel for the game]
Have feats further on that enable them to wear medium or potentially heavy armor that has been made to accommodate wings and flying as an option. Encumbrance could be another factor that could slow/stop flying and alleviated with a feat of some sort.
Flying up is supposed to always be considered difficult terrain, if I recall the rules correctly.
Perhaps one way of limiting flight would be to make any movement flying higher than one movement's distance considered difficult terrain unless you drop at least 5' altitude in that movement. You could even limit a max altitude increase per move action to 5' if higher than your movement speed. So to move up 15' up would require at least 3 move actions, even with a 20' speed.
edit:
Now, perhaps you want flyers to be more mobile at lower levels, however it seems like that is contrary to some of the general direction they went with flying in second edition due to its ability to resolve certain challenges quickly.
If you don't want them to have to pay feats to remove these limitations, you could have the limitations get removed as they reach certain levels, kind of like a scaling feat can improve automatically by level or skill rank.
There could be a feat to reduce the difficulty/restrictions of flying high, another feat could open up flying slowly while encumbered.
Additionally, flying by default could leave your inexperienced flyer flat-footed to attacks as I believe climbing does.
On a separate note, most flying creatures that fly by way of wings, should probably be considered a size larger than their normal size for purpose of taking up space and being able to be attacked when they are flying. Obviously flying by way of levitation, or magical walking though air, wingless dragons, and such wouldn't be that way. But doesn't it make sense for a pegasus to need more space to fly, than a horse needs to walk, for instance?
Some of these flying skills improvements could be an archetype for flying combatants, so they could spend class feats to improve their flying combat.
In any case, based on what I recall, I think the Aarakocra had light hollow bones, so I think having significantly fewer racial HP seems perfectly valid. I'm tempted to try to stay away from an extra flaw to 'pay' for the racial abilities, but it might be something we would have to consider at some point if we can't find a better way to balance it that makes sense.
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Fly speed of 30.
You are Clumsy 5, Enfeebled 5, and Stupefied 5 while flying. You do not take these penalties if you gain flight from another source.
(You can't fight, carry, or cast spells very well. So basically only good for utility).
Then have 4 ancestor feats that each reduce the penalty by 1.
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Fly speed of 30.
You are Clumsy 5, Enfeebled 5, and Stupefied 5 while flying. You do not take these penalties if you gain flight from another source.(You can't fight, carry, or cast spells very well. So basically only good for utility).
Then have 4 ancestor feats that each reduce the penalty by 1.
Honestly, that sounds terrible. ^^ With stupefied 5 it's not even good for utility/scouting since Perception will also have the penalty.
If you want to supress fighting and casting, say you need your arms for balance and can't use them to attack or manipulate(TM) stuff. Then have an ancestry feat to remove the arms restriction. And I could see clumsy being a thing at low levels... but that's it.
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Fly speed of 30.
You are Clumsy 5, Enfeebled 5, and Stupefied 5 while flying. You do not take these penalties if you gain flight from another source.(You can't fight, carry, or cast spells very well. So basically only good for utility).
Then have 4 ancestor feats that each reduce the penalty by 1.
Honestly, that sounds terrible. ^^ With stupefied 5 it's not even good for utility/scouting since Perception will also have the penalty.
If you want to supress fighting and casting, say you need your arms for balance and can't use them to attack or manipulate(TM) stuff. Then have an ancestry feat to remove the arms restriction. And I could see clumsy being a thing at low levels... but that's it.
I don't want to remove the manipulate trait, because I think it's fine to fight from air at high level. It's easy for anyone else to pick up a potion or whatever. So a decreasing penalty seems like a better way of doing it rather than going from "can't cast a spell" to "can cast a spell" in a single level.
But I can remove the skill penalties and just leave the combat penalties. Seems fine to do that.
Also, I kinda of want to add this as special weapon training.
Claw-Foot (better name?). Claws that are on your foot leave your hands free while attacking or flying.
Hands-, 1d6S, unarmed, Kicking, fly-by.
Kicking: Kicking weapons do not take up a hand. It takes 1 minute to equip a kicking weapon and you can only have 1 at a time.
Fly-By: When you take a Strike immediately before taking making Strike, you can resume your stride action and finish any movement you had left.
So...
Hit Points: 4. Size: Medium Speed 20 feet
Ability Boosts
Dexterity, Wisdom, Free
Ability Flaw
Constituition
Speed 15
Fly Speed 25.
"While you are flying, you take a -5 conditional penalty equal to all combat related rolls, including including AC, saves, attack rolls, and damage rolls. Any time you attempt to Cast a Spell while stupefied, the spell is disrupted unless you succeed at a flat check with a DC of 10. You cannot fly while encumbered.
This penalty goes away as soon as you land on a solid surface that can support your weight. This does not apply to if you gain flight from another source."
Level 1 feats:
-Claw-Foot training.
-Chicken Lore.
-Winged Acrobat: You automatically succeed on any balance check. Reduce falling distance by your flying speed.
Level 5:
-Claw-Foot expert.
-Fast Flight: Increase your fly speed by 5'. This includes flight gained from other sources.
-Heavy Lifter: You can fly at half your speed while encumbered.
-Areal Combatant. Reduce the penalty of flying to 3, and the DC to cast spells by 6.
Level 9:
-Areal Slayer: Further reduce the penalty of flying to 1, and the DC to cast spells by 3.
Level 13:
-Claw-Foot master
-Areal Ace: You take no penalty for flying and can perform areal maneuvers without penalty.
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I’ve made/making a pixie ancestry and I managed the flying by having it at 10’ increasing to 30’ (or 40’ cannot remember) with a level 5 ancestry feat. Granted they also have weakness to cold iron equal to half their level to balance it out.
A glide ability initially and then full flight with a level 5 ancestry feat seems to be a useful compromise.
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honestly, just slap "uncommon" on that bad boy and give him 25ft fly speed, either a GM is prepared to deal with flying or isn't.
I don't think you should gimp the race nor make it complicated by giving them all these debuffs or what ever. flying isn't a combat problem, so you shouldn't be balancing their combat statistics around having flying.
also i think 4 hit points at level 1 is absurd, should at least be a 6.
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honestly, just slap "uncommon" on that bad boy and give him 25ft fly speed, either a GM is prepared to deal with flying or isn't.
I don't think you should gimp the race nor make it complicated by giving them all these debuffs or what ever. flying isn't a combat problem, so you shouldn't be balancing their combat statistics around having flying.
also i think 4 hit points at level 1 is absurd, should at least be a 6.
Flying is an all around problem... Exploration, combat and everything else.
That being said. I would just make all those races with flying 'advanced' ancestries like some of the devs said once. It would be quite hard to balance around them. Or only make races that can gain flying with time only getting 'true' 100% flight at level 15 with the last ancestry feat.
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Lvl 15 would be impossibile, so we would have to stick with 13 or 17.
I'd say that lvl 13 could be the best deal.
- Fly is a lvl 3 spell, which requires lvl 5 to be casted, and allows a target to Fly for 5 min.
Heighten spell 7, which requires lvl 13, lasts for 1 hour.
- Barbarian will learn his flying stuff at lvl 12. While Raging, he gains flying speed.
- Mercury boots are a lvl 10 item.
Lvl 13 for a complete flying form, maybe with a time limit, seems honest.
Yeah 17 sorry it was my mistake.
I would go with glide at 5 or 1, at 11 or 13 limited flying and 17 illimied fly.I just think ancestry feats shouldn't be as powerful as spells and class feats(Specially at the same level and while the class and spell ones are limited.)
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I do agree, bur some Ancestry feats are definitely way too good.
Like halfling fortune + guiding fortune.
Or improved orc superstition.
Eventually even orc ferocity.To think that a class would have to invest much to unlock permaflying is ok, but since it is heritage, i will give it to them earlier.
I'd say more lvl 9 incomplete ( which means just x minutes per hour ) and lvl 13 at will.
Fair enough. I do think 3 ancestry feats for, flight, glide and some kind of small bonus related to it is enough. I still think it shouldn't be a common thing. I mean i can accept it in my games but in some campaigns it can suck balls when the player can solve everything easy. I think it might be enough but still they should be uncommon.
Striving balance is really hard specially in a new game and I am really thankful for all the comments and suggestions.
honestly, just slap "uncommon" on that bad boy and give him 25ft fly speed, either a GM is prepared to deal with flying or isn't.
I don't think you should gimp the race nor make it complicated by giving them all these debuffs or what ever. flying isn't a combat problem, so you shouldn't be balancing their combat statistics around having flying.
also i think 4 hit points at level 1 is absurd, should at least be a 6.
Flying is an all around problem... Exploration, combat and everything else.
That being said. I would just make all those races with flying 'advanced' ancestries like some of the devs said once. It would be quite hard to balance around them. Or only make races that can gain flying with time only getting 'true' 100% flight at level 15 with the last ancestry feat.
except it's really not, for combat it merely means that you can go to melee with flying creatures, that's not a huge change in favorable terrain or anything. combat options for flight come fairly early. keep the flight speed low and there's not much of an advantage.
it's really only a narrative hurdle, being very hard to otherwise entrap or force players in a certain direction, since almost always going up is an option.
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There are some enemies that literally can't hit flying enemies... And by that I mean a lot of them... Every animal can't do anything to a flying enemy unless the animal has fly.
Besides that positioning with flight is just so much better in combat, evading traps, snares and hazard mid combat. If you can't see how flight is broken in all aspects of the game I am sorry but I don't think I will be able to prove it to you.
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Starfinder handled this problem like this:
A dragonkin gains an extraordinary flight speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Until a dragonkin is 5th level, he must end his movement on the ground at the end of each turn or fall.
I would change the transition to full flight to require an ancestry feat. Still very powerful, but much more difficult to fight while flying until later.
In addition to the above, you could add one of these restrictions:
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You could impose a maximum height the creature can fly to and/or make it a slow speed. Maybe a penalty to attack rolls while flying?
Feats could gradually make the character fast and agile while in flight.
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Starfinder handled this problem like this:
A dragonkin gains an extraordinary flight speed of 30 feet with average maneuverability. Until a dragonkin is 5th level, he must end his movement on the ground at the end of each turn or fall.I would change the transition to full flight to require an ancestry feat. Still very powerful, but much more difficult to fight while flying until later.
That's probably the best way. Just start with small hops, and increase the duration.
Fledgling Flight: When you Stride, you can fly 25'. You must end your action on the ground or you fall. You cannot fly while encumbered.
Level 5:
Juvenile Flight: When you use fly, you must land at the end of your turn instead of after each action.
Level 9:
Eaglet Flight: You can fly for 1 minutes. After which you must rest for 10 minutes.
Level 13:
Adult Flight: You gain a fly for 10 minutes. After which you must rest for 10 minutes.
Level 15:
You can fly.
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However the only problem would be interacting with a society of those creatures.
If a player unlock flying at lvl xx, then every single creature of the same race available to fly will do the same.
This could cause issues in terms of lore and epicness, for example by see ing a whole city of winged creatures unable to fly.
Setting different level requirements for npc and players would be pure nonsense.
Setting different levels for PCs and Monsters/NPCs is an intended/architected part of second edition. So NPC monsters can have things as 0-level creatures that a PC might not be able to have at 1st level.
You can have a 1st level PC who's stats are phenominal for a little goblin or kobold from an average species standpoint, but will be instead balanced from a baseline for PC play, not for average of some specific species.
So, your first level birdman may be more limited in flight than some flighted monsters in the bestiary, or even including an NPC example of their own species created as a combat or other type of challenge for an encounter.
That doesn't mean they HAVE to be different for PCs and NPCs, and would personally look towards types of limitations that could make sense to be able to be applied to early level flighted creatures as well in many cases.
So even if your 'average' flighted PC had to land at the end of every round or suffer falling, it doesn't mean that an NPC specified as a Birdman Warrior couldn't have 8 HP and have a general unrestricted flight speed, and carry javelins to throw from above.
Technically, being flighted is a higher level ability, so it would probably drive the Creature level up higher, so although most stats may be more similar to a Creature of level 1, having flight might drive it up to Creature 2. And in its case its 'exceptional' ability would fall into the movement type category.
Someone, even potentially myself could complain, how come I can't fly that effectively now. But I'd remind myself, that the PC probably has twice as many HP and likely has other handy abilities that the NPC will not have. Also, I guess if you get a hold of a fly spell, then you can fly that way for a while. :)
I definitely think it would make sense to make some simple normal limitations, and potential exceptions/remediations/archetypes of flight abilities at early levels, and where applicable, apply them to NPCs/Monsters in that tier too. But there will always, and should be able to be exceptions.
Requiring a flying creature to land at the end of every turn like Starfinder requires at lower levels isn't a bad game mechanic, although it may seem a bit odd from a story/narrative perspective.
Perhaps if you don't land at the end of your turn, your last action has to be a 'maintain flight' action to prevent you from falling. You don't get any movement out of this action but it allows you to stay aloft. It could however also apply a flat-footed condition on you as you are focusing on maintaining your flight, rather than protecting yourself.
Some of these limitation could either be lifted automatically as you reach certain levels, as if getting them were part of a scaling feat, or they might be something that you buy away by getting feats to improve aspects of your flying.
Limiting how high something can fly was something I mentioned earlier, someone else mentioned it since. I think I suggested potentially making any attempts to fly past that always considered difficult terrain. You could potentially require making an acrobatics check when more than one round(or actions) distance from something you could perch on, or risk falling.
It would reduce the mobility and combat impact of flying at lower levels, as they might be trading an advantage for a disadvantage. Although, presumably all flying ancestries available at low levels would be tagged as uncommon or more rare to insure that GMs only would allow them if they wanted to allow flying at such a low level.
i really dislike the idea of feat chains, they're simply boring, and these feats in particular you only take to even feel competent at flying.
at most it should be 1 feat to become competent and then extra feats make you extraordinary. like being able to do flyby attacks or something.
i really dislike the idea of feat chains, they're simply boring, and these feats in particular you only take to even feel competent at flying.
at most it should be 1 feat to become competent and then extra feats make you extraordinary. like being able to do flyby attacks or something.
Then maybe base it on acrobatics/athletics training? Since flying basically replaces those skills anyways, making you take them seems fine.
If you are trained in athletics, you can fly for 1 action. If you are an expert you can fly until the end of your turn. If you are a master you can fly for 1 minute. Legendary can fly indefinitely. You can only fly if you are carring less than half your bulk.
If you are trained in acrobatic, you can fly half your speed. Expert is your speed. Master increases your speed by 5'. Legendary increase it by 10'.
Feat 9, expert in athletics. You can carry your bulk when flying.
I will leave an update of the Aarakocra Homebrew for now, like I said before I am really grateful for the suggestions, I looking foward for more opinions on how to balance it.
I'm not sure if this will help or not, but here goes:
From my perspective there are always two ways of viewing flying: story-telling and game-mechanics. The two tend not to be compatible.
In the first place, if the level for flight is 10 or more then, by default, any member of the species that actually flies must be level 10 in some class. They cannot naturally fly before that. That means, largely, most of the winged race can't actually fly but can only glide their entire lives. It also means any actual fliers the party encounters must be whatever level flying is gained at.
If this is sounding ludicrous, that's because it largely is. If you want a race that flies, let them fly and then work out the implications that this presents when you create challenges. After all, if a flying race is common enough to be part of an adventuring group then it's common enough that the PCs should be encountering flying enemies pretty much from the start.
Wings are mostly useful in outside situations for scouting or shooting from above. That said, people adapt to flying combat like anything else and there's bound to be anti-flier weapons around. Also if you can see you can be seen, so even there it doesn't necessarily present an advantage.
i still think the flight speed should be at most 25 feat.
okay REALLY the best way to balancing flying for combat is make your ground speed, 25, and flying 15 or 20. a player will almost never fly unless they have too. (reminds me of the old story of the best trap the GM has, if a player can't reach an enemy this turn unless they jump over a ravine, you bet your horses they'll try to jump the ravine. :P)
they can hover and the like all they want but ground movement is usually more efficient.
with that i think 6 HP and dexterity + wisdom + free could be balanced. make a 9th level feat that increases it to 25(or to match your ground speed) and gives them the ability to hustle for an additional 20 minutes(letting them fly longer despite their consitution)
in fact you can also say that exploration flying movement always counts as hustling and thus characters can only fly for ConModx10minutes before becoming fatigued(or just can't fly anymore, it actually doesn't say what happens if you try to hustle beyond the limit).
Well, if you want to go simple with consistent story.
Fly 20
You cannot attack or cast spells while flyings, and are also flat footed.
If you get flight from another source, you do not take these penalties, and increase the granted fly speed by 5'.