Assurance and negative ability score

[K1]

Hi there,

title says everything.
If you are lvl 10 and are expert in a skill, which has -1 from a 8 score, and you use you assurance feat, what would be the outcome?

24 or 23?

[HammerJack]

24

Regardless of whether it is positive or negative, your ability modifier is not part of your assurance result.

[K1]

Thanks Jack

[lemeres]

From what mark sheifer has said, this feat was designed so that a level 3 rogue could trip a ogre as long as they had assurance in athletics.

So it is designed with low score characters in mind. For good or bad, you are throwing raw proficiency+10 at the target.

[d'Eon]

lemeres wrote:

From what mark sheifer has said, this feat was designed so that a level 3 rogue could trip a ogre as long as they had assurance in athletics.

So it is designed with low score characters in mind. For good or bad, you are throwing raw proficiency+10 at the target.

OwO

Checks book

Not quite level 3, ogres have Reflex DC of 16, but a level 4 rogue could totally do it.

Is Assurance (Athletics) that good? Apparently so!

[james014Aura]

Reflex DC of 16: 10 Assurance, 2 level, 4 expert.

A level TWO rogue can do it. They can get Expert that low. Or a level 2 Pathfinder Agent who chose Athletics (or future dedications that can boost Athletics instead of free skill rank)

[d'Eon]

Well I know what skill feat I'm giving my monk!

[lemeres]

Assurance also ignores MAP, so you can throw in a trip or a grapple as your third action, even after you did all your regular attacks.

Which means it is fantastic for monks. They usually have their hands free, and their 3rd action would usually experience pretty severe MAP because of the extra attack from flurry.

The fun part is that a lot of melee classes have feats that can punish 'move' actions. Which includes standing up after tripping. So the feat is relevant, even if you are a strength based monk.

Overall, this edition is trying to be kinder to maneuvers. Just a skill point and a skill feat lets you pull of shenanigans.

[d'Eon]

Looking over the Bestiary, a lot of lower level enemies have pretty high Reflex saves so it is tougher at 1st level. Once you get a few levels up it seems to become easier to Assurance maneuver everyone tho

[SuperBidi]

I've looked at high level monsters, and it looks like this maneuver stops working at some point. At level 10, there are extremely few monsters that could get tripped thanks to assurance. Even if you face a level 8 one.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

As I understand it, Assurance is meant to let you reliably beat challenges at least a couple levels below you, not at-level challenges. So Assurance(Athletics) should be great at dealing with mooks, not so much rivals or bosses.

[Franz Lunzer]

At level 10, with master in Athletics, your Assurance is 26, so you can successfully

-grapple, shove (Fort DC):

Level 8 creatures: axiomite, balisse, brain collector, giant octopus (huge), kishi, lamia matriach, sphinx, young copper dragon, young green dragon,
Level 9 creatures: leukodaemon, storm lord, vampire mastermind,
Level 10 creatures: remnant of Barzillai,

-trip, disarm (Reflex DC):

Level 8 creatures: arboreal regent (huge), axiomite, balisse, bida (huge), brain collector, bulette (huge), chimera, desert drake, flesh golem, hive mother (huge), sphinx, stone giant, triceratops (huge), young green dragon,
Level 9 creatures: deinosuchus (huge), dragon turtle (huge), drakauthix (huge), frost giant, Mokele-Mbembe (huge), mummy pharao, stone mauler,
Level 10 creatures: clay golem, fire giant, mammoth (huge), roper, shield archon,

[K1]

Depends the target.

Even a dragon from 3 to 6 lvl under yours could avoid your Assurance checks.

So it is not mostly lvl based but depends the physicality and maybe the mental state of the creature.

For an instance, you could shove a lvl 18 banshee as lvl 30 adventurer, but you wouldn't be able to shove a lvl 15 dragon as a lvl 20 adventurer.

Eventually, because of his dimensions, you could be able to trip him instead.

And so on.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Franz Lunzer wrote:

At level 10, with master in Athletics, your Assurance is 26, so you can successfully

-grapple, shove (Fort DC):

Level 8 creatures: axiomite, balisse, brain collector, giant octopus (huge), kishi, lamia matriach, sphinx, young copper dragon, young green dragon,
Level 9 creatures: leukodaemon, storm lord, vampire mastermind,
Level 10 creatures: remnant of Barzillai,

-trip, disarm (Reflex DC):

Level 8 creatures: arboreal regent (huge), axiomite, balisse, bida (huge), brain collector, bulette (huge), chimera, desert drake, flesh golem, hive mother (huge), sphinx, stone giant, triceratops (huge), young green dragon,
Level 9 creatures: deinosuchus (huge), dragon turtle (huge), drakauthix (huge), frost giant, Mokele-Mbembe (huge), mummy pharao, stone mauler,
Level 10 creatures: clay golem, fire giant, mammoth (huge), roper, shield archon,

Interesting! But are you looking for a success or a critical success on the disarms? 'Cause the former doesn't do much.

[K1]

It is a success.

However, given how lore skills works, players are not supposed to know mobs st.

So you would probably fail assurances checks too.

The Bigger, the harder to shove or grab.
Go for trip instead.

The thinner, but not agile, the easier to shove or grab.