Gaze Attacks and Reprint, did they broke?


Rules Questions


Hello guys, i've recently noticied that with the last reprint paizo removed "Gaze Attacks" from the "Aura" section of the monster entry, let them be only a specific kind of Special Attacks and that kinda "broke" the gaze's flow in combat:

given the text:

"Each opponent within range of a gaze attack must attempt a saving throw each round at the beginning of his or her turn in the initiative order"

imagine a scenario where a creature is battling a basilisk.

1)The creature approaching/Charging into the Basilisk, does she trigger the gaze attack?

2)Given the wording of Gaze, the creature can in her turn moves in and out of the gaze attack range and not triggering it if she ends her turn outside the range of the gaze?

It seems very strange to me that paizo suddenly encouraging players to charge into basilisks, given that before the reprint, being Gaze a kind of "aura" suggested that it could trigger as soon as a creature entered it.

what is the correct interpretation in a Raw point of view? any faqs?

thanks for your time, and be kind for my english


The correct interpretation is as written. Saves are only made if you begin the round within range of the gaze attack. The idea behind this (I believe) is that it does take some sort of effort on the part of the creature to effect you with its gaze, so if you’re moving before it in initiative (or after it, when it has taken its turn dealing with something else), you can effectively get close to it before it has a chance to effect you. Since the idea of initiative order is the general reaction time and opportunity-seeking nature of the characters, I think this method makes sense. Players with the ability to get in and out of the range (such as with spring attack, ride-by/fly-by attack, or dimensional dervish) have a build that coincidentally works well against this.

Specific builds work well with specific encounters. Rock beats scissors beats paper beats rock.


I think the actual answer is "If you move into range you make a saving throw at that time".


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Claxon wrote:
I think the actual answer is "If you move into range you make a saving throw at that time".

While you might think that, I can’t find it anywhere RAW. The only saves you make against a Gaze attack are if you *start* your turn inside the gaze, or if the creature uses a standard action to “actively gaze” at a creature, per the quoted section of the Universal Monster Rules below:

“A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent’s action and once during the creature’s turn.”

“The opponent” here is who the creature with a gaze attack is targeting. It can save once “before the opponent’s action” (aka “at the beginning of his or her turn”) and also if the creature actively targets it as a standard action (attack action).

The *only* way you have to make a save for entering the range of the gaze attack is if the creature took a readied action to use his standard action Gaze against a foe who enters (and then it would only be the single foe, not every opponent who enters).

EDIT: (comment) everything I say is from my best understanding of RAW. If someone finds RAW that contradicts anything I’ve said i’ll happily change how I view it. Can only do the best with that I’ve read though


I'm not sure I understand what changed. Did they just remove "gaze" from the "Aura" section, or was there some more substantial change?

Edit: Also, when did this change happen? None of the three online sources I frequent have an aura section for basilisks, including one that no longer gets updated.


Gaze is very clearly worded and intended that if you can see the creature (or its eyes or whatever, depending on the creature)/are actively looking at it, and are in range, you need to save when that happens. This means if you see a medusa and charge to within 30 feet, you make a save.

Otherwise you end up with hijinx not only like you describe, but also where a creature says it's not looking or has its eyes closed at the start of its turn, then says it opens them (free action), takes attacks and actions completely free of penalty, then says it closes them again at the end of it's turn. Other than potentially being flatfooted against the creature on its turn (if it can even reach the character in the case of ranged attackers or casters), it would have none of the attack penalties such measures are clearly stated to cause.

Clearly, there is a point where they are actively looking, and that causes a save. After that, they make a save at the start of their turn (or when actively gazed at). Similarly, if they start their turn averting their gaze and succeed at the 50% chance to avoid a save, then take an action that clearly involves looking directly at the creature or not averting their eyes (like a power requiring you to look into their eyes), they have to make a save. Otherwise, the save as should only be required once per round (unless the creature actively gazes as its action), so if you were averting and still had to save, then ended up looking directly, that wouldn't require another save, nor would making the save at the start of your turn and backing out and then back into range.


Yes it’s very clearly worded. It gives the description of what a gaze attack is and then very clearly describes when you make saving throws. At the start of every turn inside it’s range and whenever it actively gazes at you. I understand that it might make sense to make a save when you enter the range, but that is *nowhere* (absolutely nowhere I’ve found) RAW. And if it’s not RAW it doesn’t belong to be treated *as if it was an official rule*... and if you’re giving your interpretation on the intention of rules (not rules as written), you should be making that clear when you comment in the “Rules Questions” forum...

But *as written* you make saves only if you start the round inside the range, or if it actively gazes at you. *then* you use the rules for averting gaze/blindfolding. Other than that there is no RAW ruling to be made. It’s all interpretation and what each group/GM thinks is the balanced ruling for how it works


CMantle wrote:
Claxon wrote:
I think the actual answer is "If you move into range you make a saving throw at that time".

While you might think that, I can’t find it anywhere RAW. The only saves you make against a Gaze attack are if you *start* your turn inside the gaze, or if the creature uses a standard action to “actively gaze” at a creature, per the quoted section of the Universal Monster Rules below:

“A creature with a gaze attack can actively gaze as an attack action by choosing a target within range. That opponent must attempt a saving throw but can try to avoid this as described above. Thus, it is possible for an opponent to save against a creature’s gaze twice during the same round, once before the opponent’s action and once during the creature’s turn.”

“The opponent” here is who the creature with a gaze attack is targeting. It can save once “before the opponent’s action” (aka “at the beginning of his or her turn”) and also if the creature actively targets it as a standard action (attack action).

The *only* way you have to make a save for entering the range of the gaze attack is if the creature took a readied action to use his standard action Gaze against a foe who enters (and then it would only be the single foe, not every opponent who enters).

EDIT: (comment) everything I say is from my best understanding of RAW. If someone finds RAW that contradicts anything I’ve said i’ll happily change how I view it. Can only do the best with that I’ve read though

Just because it's "RAW" doesn't make it not dumb.

Gaze attacks not affecting you because you can manage to start and end your turn outside of the range feels awfully silly.

It sounds like bad writing.


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Yeah I agree. But when you ask for the rules on something in the Rules Questions forum the written rules, FAQ, and designer quotations take precedent. No one is marching into your game night with an armed squad to demand you follow the RAW, but the Rules Questions forum isn’t for everyone’s opinion on the most balanced way to rule it, it’s for the actual Official Rules to be given so that the OP can make their own informed decision on how to let it effect their game.

Edit: in the spirit of irony, in case you think that’s just my opinion on the purpose and use of this Forum, here’s the RAW on it too:

“What this subforum is NOT for:

Lengthy rants about the way the rules have been written. ”


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I know what the purpose is, I just think it's worth expressing when the rules don't make sense or fail.

Not that PF1 is going to be changed at this point, so I guess what I'm saying is to encourage GMs to modify the rules (as they see fit) to include "when entering the range once per turn" into the rules.

I mean at this point, PF1 is not officially supported anymore.

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