What's the climate of Old Cheliax like?


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What's the climate of Old Cheliax like? I'm trying to decide if my wizard should select cold or heat for his endure elements spell while adventuring through the region.


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Generally if a region doesn't have a desert there is little likelihood of experiencing extreme heat, while the presence of mountains will make cold relevant in any region


My memory might be slightly off, but I vaguely remember Crystal Frasier answering this question in regards to Ravounel's climate (which is part of Old Cheliax so better than nothing?) on the big In Hell's Bright Shadow AP thread.

If I recall correctly though, the climate is rather temperate. My guess is cold is at higher risk of being relevant.


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Ralphrius wrote:

My memory might be slightly off, but I vaguely remember Crystal Frasier answering this question in regards to Ravounel's climate (which is part of Old Cheliax so better than nothing?) on the big In Hell's Bright Shadow AP thread.

If I recall correctly though, the climate is rather temperate. My guess is cold is at higher risk of being relevant.

Though, there is always the slight chance of ending up in hell....

Exo-Guardians

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It's not specified exactly, but based on Cheliax's latitude, geography, flora & fauna, and general description, i'd say it's probably similar to Southern France. So, a Mediterranean climate along the Southern coast and into the central regions (getting somewhat cooler and wetter further from the coast/closer to the mountains); a Marine climate along the west and NW coasts; and all kinds of montane microclimates in the mountains, generally getting colder and drier with increasing elevation.

So extreme temperatures shouldn't be a problem during any season unless you're high in the mountains (in which case cold could be an issue).


From the globe maps in the CRB, it seems like Avistan is pretty far north and Garund is HUGE so I'm guessing it's cooler than a Mediterranean climate. I'd guess like "Denmark".

Exo-Guardians

PossibleCabbage wrote:
From the globe maps in the CRB, it seems like Avistan is pretty far north and Garund is HUGE so I'm guessing it's cooler than a Mediterranean climate. I'd guess like "Denmark".

Cheliax is at the Southernmost edge of Avistan and lies directly across the narrow Inner Sea from Rahadoum and Thuvia, both of which are explicitly described as having hot desert climates.

In terms of real-world climate anlalogues, it seems like Avistan pretty much corresponds to Europe, and Garund corresponds to Africa, so:
Mwangi Expanse ≈ Sub-Saharan Africa
Northern Garund ≈ North Africa
the Inner Sea ≈ the Mediterranean
Varisia ≈ NW Europe
Land of the Linnorm Kings ≈ Northern Scandinavia


Yeah, I believe even Paizo has affirmed Spain and Italy (probably Southern France too) as similar Cheliax.
And actually, thousands, even 10s of thousands, of people a year routinely die of heat in the summers in those countries.

I would say heat protection is a reasonable thing in the summer there, considering Temperate Effects table.
"Mild Heat" is 95º F to 104º F* (35º C to 40º C) which doesn't do damage, but means you are exhausted after only 4 hours (vs 8 normally).
"Severe Heat" is 105º F* to 114º F (41º C to 45º C) which also does minor fire damage every hour.
Those are both certainly possible in summer, especially when considering "high humidity" lowers the threshold by 15º F (9º C),
I think with high humidity, even Extreme heat with minor fire damage every 10 minutes is very possible.
(with Humidity, "Mild Heat" = 80*+ "Severe Heat" = 90*+ "Extreme Heat" = 100*+ in Farenheight)

In terms of cold in the winter, I don't expect most areas to get worse than Mild Cold, although some mountains could get Severe.

But even reducing the length of adventuring day is serious thing to care about for PCs.
They really did set the temperature bands in a way that it is pretty common to use the rules for them unless GM just ignores them.
Of course, if you aim to adventure in Cheliax in the spring or fall you won't care about this,
and probably trying to avoid the mid-afternoon heat with a siesta in some place cool is also a good coping strategy.


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To answer the original question, weather conditions could be highly variable. Whether you need protection from the weather would depend on season and current variation of the weather from the seasonal norm. You are probably fine in spring or fall, with a greater chance of extreme weather in summer or winter.

A case could be made for assuming that the weather is tolerable unless the GM says otherwise.

Exo-Guardians

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Quandary wrote:

Yeah, I believe even Paizo has affirmed Spain and Italy (probably Southern France too) as similar Cheliax.

And actually, thousands, even 10s of thousands, of people a year routinely die of heat in the summers in those countries.

I assume you're talking about the record 2003 European heatwave that is estimated to have contributed to the deaths of 30,000-70,000 people across the continent... yes that happened, but it was an extraordinary event-- the hottest summer on record since the 16th century.

It was so deadly precisely because it was so unusual-- people weren't prepared for it, and buildings weren't designed for it. That's why casualty rates were actually higher in northern Europe, even though it got significantly hotter in the south.

Furthermore, the vast majority of the deaths happened among the elderly and infirm, and mostly in dense urban areas to boot (which get hotter than the surrounding countryside due to the "heat island" effect of modern car-filled, asphalt-paved cities).

Heat absolutely does not "routinely" kill tens of thousands of people anywhere in Europe. Continent-wide, total deaths from heat-related causes are typically in the dozens to low hundreds per year, and most of the victims are elderly.


Nope, I was just thinking about this past summer, although obviously 2003 was much more deadly.
Supposedly 1500 people died only in France this year.
Certainly not constrained to "southern" Europe, the hottest 40*C+ temps were in north from France to western Germany.

That's pretty much in Severe Heat / minor fire damage every hour territory even without any humidity factor.
Obviously the traditional siesta of Spain is coherent with mid-day temperatures hot enought to be uncomfortable.
My point being these categories are highly plausible to occur in game, although beyond "Mild Heat"
would be rare as standard weather, although humidity is probably enough to reliably kick into next tier.

Exo-Guardians

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Again, this is extraordinary heat, driven by global climate change from massive increases in atmospheric CO2. Golarion, being a pre-industrial society, doesn't have this problem.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

This map, and the links to other data, may help you decide
Mapping Golarion.

It lets you calculate latitude and longitude across Golarian.

John Mechalas wrote:

Hello, everyone! This is the thread for tracking the progress of mapping Golarion. The goal is to obtain a reasonable latitude and longitude for Paizo's campaign setting maps. This is a continuation of the original thread that was focused on the Pathfinder 1st Edition setting. If you want all the gory details of this process and how we got to where we are, that is a great place to start!

In Pathfinder 2nd Edition, there are some significant changes to the Inner Sea region: we have regional borders (Saga Lands, Broken Lands, etc.) and some new nations. We were also given our first official, to-scale world map in the Core rule book. The goal is to build a 2nd edition data set, and incorporate new campaign material into that data set as it's released.

What can you do with this stuff, and why does it matter?

Once you have latitude and longitude, you can do a number of things that are useful in a game:

* Determine what time the sun rises and sets
* Calculate great-circle distances between far-away locations
* Build interactive maps
* Make reasonable guesses about climate and local weather patterns


Saros Palanthios wrote:
Again, this is extraordinary heat, driven by global climate change from massive increases in atmospheric CO2. Golarion, being a pre-industrial society, doesn't have this problem.

OK, I don't really know the value of this diversion to modern heat waves, of distinguishing modern vs ancient climate

I don't think most people, including Paizo devs, have any intuitive understanding of "ancient" Southern France / Mediterranean climate,
and I don't think *you* were referring to some ancient climate when you first mentioned Southern France / Mediterranean climate.
So rather than continue that angle which you were responding to, I think actually dealing with game term categories is productive here.

You stated extreme temperatures shouldn't be problem...
I only mentioned Extreme being /possible/ in Humid conditions (with Mild Heat most common peak in Summer, Severe somewhat frequent with Humidity),
although I don't think you were actually speaking in terms of the game's temperature bands. Maybe you can specify what you envision in game terms?
Obviously somewhere like Madrid is dry, while somewhere like Milan has humid summer weather, many places somewhat varied in conditions.

I'll paste those rules here, with Humid band shift already calculated:

DRY
Normal 33º F to 94º F (1º C to 34º C) 8 hours None
Mild heat 95º F to 104º F (35º C to 40º C) 4 hours None
Severe heat 105º F to 114º F (41º C to 45º C) 4 hours Minor fire every hour
Extreme heat 115º F to 139º F (46º C to 59º C) 4 hours Minor fire every 10 minutes

HUMID
Normal 33º F to 79º F (1º C to 34º C) 8 hours None
Mild heat 80º F to 89º F (26º C to 31º C) 4 hours None
Severe heat 90º F to 99º F (32º C to 36º C) 4 hours Minor fire every hour
Extreme heat 100º F to 124º F (37º C to 44º C) 4 hours Minor fire every 10 minutes


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I think that given the propensity of most GM's and adventure path writers to only use weather for mood/dramatic effect, I doubt that heat waves are going to be an actual issue.


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Cloudy with a chance of Mephistopheles.


Exactly: since the existence of Cheliax in its current form is the result of extensive diabolic involvement, I make sure to point out that the sewers are always steaming, that the roads radiate heat long after the sun has set, that there’s a warm glow reflecting off the underside of the clouds at night even when there’s no cities nearby, and that the air has a tendency to flir even when it’s not even that warm.


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I'm not so sure "extensive diabolic involvement" would necessarily have those effects.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ed Reppert wrote:
I'm not so sure "extensive diabolic involvement" would necessarily have those effects.

Perhaps not, but they would be more likely. :P

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