Ring of Spell Knowledge Questions


Rules Questions


Just to be sure:

1. Do I have to pay spell casting services to add a spell to a brand new Ring of Spell Knowledge?

2. Once I've got the ring with a spell inside, is the spell spent once I cast it for the first time?

3. If I remove the ring for whatever reason (e.g. to lend it to another spontaneous spell caster) is the spell that was inside lost?

Now, I would say 1. yes, 2. no, 3. no. But some of the guys in my group disagree, so I decided to ask here to see if I can get an unbiased opinion.

Thanks in advance!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Quote:
A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list.

1) Yes, it is one of the methods to have it learn a spell.

2) No, you never cast the spell from the ring. You spend your spell slots to cast it, the ring simply adds it to your repertoire of known spells.

3) I will rule that the spell is maintained. The check is to "teach the spell to the ring" and there is no mention of it unlearning it.

Instead, exactly for the same reason, I am unsure if the learned spell can be changed. Without mention of how you change the learned spell, I feel that once learned it is fixed. YMMV.


You don’t necessarily have to pay for spell casting services. If you already have a written version (from a scroll or a spell book) you don’t need to pay. The same is true for a cast or active version of the spell. You could pay someone to cast the spell so that you could learn it, but that is not a requirement. You don’t need to pay the ring any gold, but you may need to pay another spell caster for access to the spell to be learned.

The description states thereafter and makes no mention of the spell being lost. It also states the spell caster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’s spell list. The ring is learning a spell not memorizing one so it is not expended when cast, or removed.


Clearly the spell in the ring can be overwritten. Otherwise the costing of the ring makes little sense. The ring occupies a slot and costs more than a Page of Spell Knowledge of the same spell level so unless you were playing in a PFS Core campaign it would make no sense at all to own it.

The ring does mention how you can learn a spell. It is not much of a stretch to say that the spell is overwritten when you learn a new spell.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Mage of the Wyrmkin wrote:

Clearly the spell in the ring can be overwritten. Otherwise the costing of the ring makes little sense. The ring occupies a slot and costs more than a Page of Spell Knowledge of the same spell level so unless you were playing in a PFS Core campaign it would make no sense at all to own it.

The ring does mention how you can learn a spell. It is not much of a stretch to say that the spell is overwritten when you learn a new spell.

It depends. If you find it as treasure an empty Ring of Spell Knowledge is better, as you get to choose what will fill it. A filled one is the same or worse than Page of Spell Knowledge.

But I suspect that they were proposed to Paizo by different contributors at the same time and one thought of comparing the two items.

All considered the pages are way better (they use no slots, can contain higher level spells and you can take a lot of them with you) and costs less, so it is not a problem if you allow a player to rewrite the learned spell. My point is that the item simply doesn't explain how that work.

The old spell is canceled when you attempt to re-write it or only if the check succeeds?

Considering how useful is to know more spells, the ring is way more balanced than the scrolls, especially if you consider than, RAW, you can craft the scrolls without any knowledge of the spell or having spellcraft.
A 7th level expert with Profession(scribe), Master Craftsman, Craft wondrous items and Skill focus (scribe) has a +13 to the check and can make 7th level Scrolls even with Wisdom 10 and no knowledge in spellcraft.
"My mighty pennmanship will create magic!"


From the description I believe the answers are:
1) As long as you have access to a version of the spell you want to learn you don't need to pay for it to be cast. If someone else in the group can cast it, or you find the spell active, or you can find a spellbook with the spell in it, or a scroll.

If you can find a caster with a spellbook that would sell spell casting services you should also be able to pay the same amount a wizard would to copy the spell from the caster's book.

2) No, the ring learns the spell. There is no mention on the ring forgetting anything.

3) Again, no. Once the ring learns a spell, it retains the memory.

As a GM I'd have the ring come with 1 spell learned already. I'd also let the wearer use the ring to learn a new spell. The attempt erases the previous spell since the ring can only hold 1 spell at a time. But the ring doesn't say anything about changing the spell the ring has learned, so this really is beyond RAW but I believe well within RAI.


First of all, thank you guys for your replies. I can see we all more or less agree on how the item works.

Now, of the three points mentioned, I cared most about the last (whether the spell is lost if the ring is lent), and, again, I see we all agree the spell is maintained.

Just to play devil's advocate, I'll give you the ruling that made me open this thread to begin with:

Ring of Spell Knowledge wrote:
"...the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring. Thereafter, the arcane spellcaster may cast the spell as though she knew the spell and it appeared on her class’ spell list."
My GM wrote:
To me this implies that removing it and giving it to wear loses the spell within and the new wearer must follow the process as outlined within the item, as support for this i'll note that the item has no text on 'finding it with a spell already in' unlike other such items which might be similar.

In my honest opinion, all that this extract of text implies is that when you find a Ring of Spell Knowledge in a quest or a hoard, the ring may be empty as it "...is only a storage space."; although, not necessarily.

What's your take on this, guys?

Thanks in advance!


Your GM's ruling just gave you a way to change the spell in the ring. Give it to another party member for a round and the get it back. Poof: empty ring.

You also now have a reason not to sell any spellbook you get as treasure.

/cevah


That seems like a weird interpretation but

Quote:
Arcane spells that do not appear on the wearer’s class list are treated as one level higher for all purposes (storage and casting).

If his interpretation isn’t right, I don’t know how to handle this. Here, whether or not a spell can be stored in a ring is a function of the wearer’s caster class, not the ‘teacher’, which doesn’t work unless the teacher always has to be the wearer as well.

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