SP = Bloated HP?


General Discussion


I understand the story arc aspect of Stamina Points (SP) but I am not seeing the game value.

While you can easily recover them with a short rest, and some other means, in the end they appear to make most players treat 12 HP + 10 SP as 22 HP.

This can't be the intention, so what are we missing?

How does an 8th level Vesk Soldier with nearly 132 HP+SP combined not create a very long and drawn out combat scenario of grinding through SP into HP?

We've once played a different game where your first level HP (ex 12) is all you get, and you only gain +1 HP as you level. So at 8, you'd have 19. The weapons don't level, so a 1d4+STR knife is the same at 1 or 8. But... your Stamina does level and it is used for special actions, soaking up HP loss, recovering HP loss, pushing your limits, etc. So while it might be 10 and level 1 and 80 at level 8, its used in chunks to provide more benefit, and less as HP padding.

When I saw some into on Starfinder I thought this might work the same, but clearly not.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Stamina is key for a few reasons.

1 - one of the 'features' of starfinder is that you can be successful w/o a magic healer. sp lets you do that.

2 - i think you are underestimating enemy damage in starfinder. when you are fighting properly leveled foes, they hit PCs hard and often. that vesk soldier quickly becomes a pile of mush w/o that giant reserve of sp+hp.

3 - the healing serums in starfinder don't work on sp, just hp. removing sp from the game would require those to be rebalanced.

4 - in combat, the only means to heal sp is with the envoy, which makes their abilities incredibly important and gives them a critical role in a party's combat strategy. it really let's that class shine at key moments - heck, an envoy can't even activate that ability except the round after a PC has been injured by a significant enemy.


OK, and that's kind of why I'm asking, and making obvious assumptions. It appears to simply double the HP value (so to speak).

Now, you said only the Envoy, but doesn't the book say you can use 1 resolve + short rest to restore your SP (core p251) or are you speaking of in combat?

That said, if the SP goes as fast as you state, and it is expected to do so, by this it seems that I should let the monsters shine (so to speak) and not normally pull any punches.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Stamina is basically Paizo going "No, the ubiquitous Wand of Cure Light Wounds is not how the setting is supposed to be". So they gave every class the ability to refresh itself between encounters when given a chance to catch their breath.

Also, as a premise, your assumption flounders on that, in Starfinder? Damage *absolutely* scales with level. . . and in practice, it did back in Pathfinder, too. If PCs don't gain more HP/SP as they level, they *will die*.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Soulkeeper wrote:

OK, and that's kind of why I'm asking, and making obvious assumptions. It appears to simply double the HP value (so to speak).

Now, you said only the Envoy, but doesn't the book say you can use 1 resolve + short rest to restore your SP (core p251) or are you speaking of in combat?

That said, if the SP goes as fast as you state, and it is expected to do so, by this it seems that I should let the monsters shine (so to speak) and not normally pull any punches.

yes, you can get your stamina back during a rest. which gives everyone a self-healing ability.

BUT it's only ~ half of your total hit points. So if you went into your HP, unless you get HP healing, you are going to be sub 100 % in a future combat despite spending the resolve point.

And yes, one of the side effects of SP is that a DM doesn't have to pull punches on PCs during a combat. As long as a PC doesn't die (hard to do in Starfinder, but certainly far from impossible) and has 1 Resolve Point, they can keep going when a fight ends. So a DM doesn't have to excessively worry about accidentally tpk'ing everyone if he really lets his monsters loose.


Every story with combat in it has at least one of these three categories of characters: storm troopers, red shirts, or death eaters. Depending on how effective the monsters and villains are.

If the villains are completely ineffective, we have storm troopers.
If the villains are effective, but only against token characters, we have red shirts.
If the villains are effective against the main characters, we have death eaters.

Starfinder (and most RPGs) want to have death eaters. The game is designed for that. So go all out with the enemies. Just keep them in line with the encounter level recommendations.


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Having played frontline characters in a wide range of Society scenarios and adventure paths, I'm very glad for Stamina, because getting jacked down to hit point damage is pretty damn common, and being able to use Resolve to get back to fighting trim without resting for the night or relying on a healer is a blessing.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Don’t forget, some damage, such as poison, deals hit point damage, bypassing stamina points altogether. For reference l, see CRB poisons 415.
This creates an interesting dynamic.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Nimor Starseeker wrote:

Don’t forget, some damage, such as poison, deals hit point damage, bypassing stamina points altogether. For reference l, see CRB poisons 415.

This creates an interesting dynamic.

I am not sure that this point has been conclusively resolved.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yeah, I can see that muddies the understanding. I would argue that it means hit point damage, otherwise they could have simply said damage. Then again the spell reflecting armor also has this problem as well. Do you take hit point damage or damage to your SP before the spell takes effect?
If it’s actual hit point damage, then the spell becomes weak and possibly not as intended.


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Metaphysician wrote:

Stamina is basically Paizo going "No, the ubiquitous Wand of Cure Light Wounds is not how the setting is supposed to be". So they gave every class the ability to refresh itself between encounters when given a chance to catch their breath.

Also, as a premise, your assumption flounders on that, in Starfinder? Damage *absolutely* scales with level. . . and in practice, it did back in Pathfinder, too. If PCs don't gain more HP/SP as they level, they *will die*.

I kinda prefer the stamina system to the super OP medicine skill in 2nd edition. Gives you a portion of your health you can get back a reasonable number of times per day with short rests but there is also the actual health pool that is for more serious longer lasting wounds that is harder to heal.

In 2nd edition you are basically nearly assumed to be full health after every major rest period due to how good medicine is. Which is nice but some of the mechanics of it come off feeling weird.

Basically starfinder and pathfinder 2nd were two different ways of working around the cure light wound wand issues of pathfinder 1st edition.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Yakman wrote:
Soulkeeper wrote:

OK, and that's kind of why I'm asking, and making obvious assumptions. It appears to simply double the HP value (so to speak).

Now, you said only the Envoy, but doesn't the book say you can use 1 resolve + short rest to restore your SP (core p251) or are you speaking of in combat?

That said, if the SP goes as fast as you state, and it is expected to do so, by this it seems that I should let the monsters shine (so to speak) and not normally pull any punches.

yes, you can get your stamina back during a rest. which gives everyone a self-healing ability.

BUT it's only ~ half of your total hit points. So if you went into your HP, unless you get HP healing, you are going to be sub 100 % in a future combat despite spending the resolve point.

And yes, one of the side effects of SP is that a DM doesn't have to pull punches on PCs during a combat. As long as a PC doesn't die (hard to do in Starfinder, but certainly far from impossible) and has 1 Resolve Point, they can keep going when a fight ends. So a DM doesn't have to excessively worry about accidentally tpk'ing everyone if he really lets his monsters loose.

Of course, this is factored into the CR chart and the rating of NPCs. Which, for any new GM or player, I *highly recommend* they read and take seriously. If you go into Starfinder assuming that you can take on a fight of CR = APL +5? *You and your entire party will die*. It doesn't matter that you could do this in Pathfinder. Starfinder has taken the mechanical glitches that allowed such exploits and fixed them.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Nimor Starseeker wrote:

Yeah, I can see that muddies the understanding. I would argue that it means hit point damage, otherwise they could have simply said damage. Then again the spell reflecting armor also has this problem as well. Do you take hit point damage or damage to your SP before the spell takes effect?

If it’s actual hit point damage, then the spell becomes weak and possibly not as intended.

This position requires assuming that the Starfinder rules are exact, precise, and unambiguous, like a legal text. Which they are not, on their face, and were never trying to be.

Bypassing the stamina system, a *huge* part of the defense for PCs and something only PCs theoretically have, is the kind of extraordinary ability that would require extraordinary evidence that it actually exists and works that way. *Especially* since it would be an ability that is 100% useless for PCs.

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