The Nature of Magic


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


Greetings, deities and adventurers alike! Have you ever wondered what Magic really is? Yes, of course it's magic, but that's hardly a satisfying answer.We want to figure out some sort of actual rules for why magic is the way it is, and what that means!

So, just to get it out of the way: this is a bit of a work in progress. There's areas that need refinement, other areas I still want to work on, but this is just about the basics of understanding what Magic is and why it works. In addition, because I'm trying to synthesize the general 'concept' of magic as a whole, taking into account numerous sources (primarily Pathfinder, but also more generic fantasy magic), it may not work perfectly for any given example, but that's fine. My main goal is to get a good baseline, that can be refined in time. So, what are qualities of magic that need to be explained? Let's define our parameters.

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1- Magic is a thing that exists and can affect the actual, physical world.
2- Magic can break through the physical world and into other realms or locations (teleportation, for example)
3- Magic can last 'forever' in some conditions, but can also affect things only momentarily.
4- Magic has no respect for the laws of thermodynamics.
5- Magic can be stopped before it forms (counterspells), and it is possible to find an area where magic simply doesn't work or exist, with no apparent barrier between where it does work or doesn't (anti-magic and dead magic areas)
6- Magic can be impeded or enhanced selectively (some kinds of magic can be selectively stopped while leaving others unaffected)

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There's more as well, but those 6 points will be a good place to start our fundamentals. So, here's my hypothesis:

Magic is a other-propagating wave, originating from other planes of existence, that those who can use Magic can manipulate to affect the physical world.

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Magic, like all waves, though, requires a medium to propagate through, and unlike light, it is not truly self-propagating. Instead, it propagates through other waves of magic. (Confused? Welcome to any high-level physics) Basically, Magic, in order to affect something, travels perpendicular to other waves of Magic, each allowing the other to continue moving. Think of it like a woven piece of cloth, with each thread supporting and being supported by those around it.

Therefore, in areas with large amounts of ambient Magic, spells can move quicker and be more powerful. Areas with no ambient Magic, for whatever reason, cannot have magic introduced to them without a concerted and very careful effort, because there is nothing for the magic to propagate through. Perhaps ambient Magic waves can be specifically attuned to allow for the propagation of some magic but not others, or you can use a spell to counter or disrupt another spell, by affecting the Magic that it's traveling through. Spells that last longer include waves automatically travelling perpendicular to each other, allowing them to exist longer by utilizing itself in the maintenance of the Magic's structure.

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So, that covers what Magic is, but that's only half the picture. Where does it come from? Well, my hypothesis is that it originates from an alternate plane of existence. You know how in Doctor Strange, it's explained that magic is just energy drawn from other realms of existence? Basically that.

For whatever reason, within those who can use magic, there is a portal to another realm of existence (let's call it a Slip), and that Slip is where Magical energy comes from. When Magic is used, the user draws energy from their Slip and shapes it, sending out shockwaves in the surrounding Magical energy, directed towards a specific purpose. Once it reaches its goal, the Magic coalesces and, depending on the exact pattern of magic, affects some sort of physical change on the world. Or, alternatively, opens up a new Slip, allowing energy, matter, or both, to travel between realities.

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What do you all think of my hypothesis? Does it fit what is typically seen in fiction/RPGs? Do you like it? Does it make sense? What further insights do you have for the nature of Magic? If this proves popular enough, I'll keep doing posts like this, on the nature of Magic. I have ideas for the origins of Slips (including why I chose that name), breakdowns of different schools of Magic (along with analysis of other casting traditions), the origin of Magic from other realities, the nature of magical items, and lots more. Let me know what you'd be interested in hearing about.


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It's super fun to hypothesize about this. I often do. I'd love to know much more about it feels and looks like to use magic in games like Pathfinder. And to a lesser extent, how it "works", etc.

But you can't do it generically. You can't say "magic". Because "magic" is always just what the setting needs it to be, to fit the theme and allow story telling.

Your hypothesis is a VERY psuedo-physics approach (which I like as a Physics peep), but isn't always going to work. It has rules, and can theoretically be truly mapped out, described with functions, and understood, etc. Sometimes magic should be mysterious, etc. It really depends on context. So fun, but in trying to be generic I think you achieve less rather than more.


Yes, I will confess: I do like science-ing everything (I'm a Physics major), and while I do like the mystery of how exactly magic works, I'm trying to piece together why it works the way it does as to add a little extra bit of fun for my players if they piece together some of the secrets of the underlying world.

(I'm also working on building a rational homebrew setting, so this is partially for that)


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The main issue I see with this explanation is that it is very arcane. That is to say, it fits into the framework of how arcane magic is described in Pathfinder, and some other RPGs, very well.
But what about divine spells, though? As well as the occult and primal spells that we also have now? A priest or druid isn't going to have the same aptitude for, or interest in, physics-based magic, and might even argue it gets in the way of how they do things.
Admittedly I'm looking at this from a more setting-agnostic point of view, as in many settings there is an emotional or spiritual component to magic, not simply a physical or intellectual one, and if you're doing this for a home game then the rationale could be totally different. It's just what I thought of when i read your post.

Incidentally, assuming you haven't read about it already, The Weave sounds a lot like the sort of magic system, though with lots more mumbo jumbo and less wave propagation.


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I suggest a different set of core principles of magic, that I believe are more general.

1. Magical phenomena can affect physical world, the way it is perceived by minds, the minds themselves, or other magical phenomena.
2. Magical phenomena can break what we consider to be the laws of physics.
3. Physical objects and minds may possess some quality that allows them to create magical phenomena.

And that's basically all that can be said about all magic systems that I know. Anything more will not apply in evry case.

In Pathfinder setting, but not in all other settings, there are additional things about magic, that can be observed.

4. The magical phenomena may persist even after its source is gone.
5. Even if objects and minds possess the quality necessary to create magical phenomena, their ability of doing so may depend on their particular stat (for example, whether a wizard have any prepared spells available) and their location (you can't use magic in an anti-magic zone).
6. There exist various traditions avaiable that magic users, that require different qualities from the magic users and differ in what type of effects they can create.
7. Magic of one tradition can affect the magic of another tradition, which shows that various traditions are not completely indepentent types of magic, and they share some common base.
8. Magic can break locality; a magic effect can instantly affect a distant place or even a completely diferent plane without affecting anything in between (for example teleportation effects).
9. Magic can break causality, allowing some limited forms of precognition and time travel.

(4) and (5) mean that there must exist some medium that can subsist the magical effect even after the source of this effect is gone.
This magic medium may subsist a number of various magical effects, and it can even create wild magic zones or dead magic zones. This means that it is a thing that may exist in many different states.

(6) and (7) means that even though they are various method in which physical object and minds can interact with the magic medium, it is still the same magic medium.

(8) and (9) are to me a strong argument that waves are not a proper description of states of the magic medium, as the wave description of any medium requires them to propagate with some finate speed (although it may be arbitrarily big) and respect causality.

Dark Archive

It is kinda weird trend I've noticed, lots of people want to think about magic in sciencey way because "If magic was real, there would be science to research it!", but on otherhand, magic is kinda defined by it not being science and it being contradictory or nonsensical at times


When PF2 was first being playtested and the essences structure was revealed, I started writing up an in-world magical text. It modifies the traditional Pathfinder casting slightly, so certain terms and concepts are not the same. Spoilered below.

Magic:
Spell components: complexity, power, duration (instant or continuous [maintained or set])
Caster components: focus/concentration, energy/resistance, skill

Primal Magic:

Primal magic (also called blood/sacrifice magic, sometimes nature magic) is one of the oldest and easiest types of magic there is. Casting a spell involves comingling one’s essence with a nearby ley line (see Ley Lines below), and then simply stating your intent, the ley line takes care of the rest (see Pros & Cons below). The more essence you comingle, the more power you can put into the spell. Comingling essence is almost invariably done via spilling blood at a ley line (thus the common names of blood or sacrifice magic), though other methods do technically exist.

Ley Lines – conduits of mixed positive and negative energy that run throughout the material universe like the circulatory system in a human body, also called the River of Souls or the Lifestream. While not sentient in the traditional sense, it is conscious enough to respond to intent, and can develop partial sentience under certain conditions. A powerful but poorly worded spell, a spell that managed to last beyond its intent and become permanent, or a death sacrifice can all result in a genius loci, which are essentially partially or fully sentient ley line ‘spirits’. These spirits can be communicated with via various methods. They are often bargained with or requested to cast spells, and many consider ‘spirit speaking’ to merely be a subset of primal magic (see Spirit Magic below). Genius loci can only cast spells of limited power and complexity and are further limited in difficult to understand ways by the intent of the spell or sacrifice that created them, but can still be very useful in certain applications.

Pros:
• Literally the easiest type of magic to use, it is also able to easily create inordinately complex and long-lasting spells, due to the semi-conscious nature of ley lines.
• Spells can be made practically permanent (will only end if actively dispelled or if the ley line moves [only happens over the course of millions of years or during a sufficiently catastrophic event, after which one would presume the spell effects would be rendered null anyway]). This of course does have a minimum power requirement based on the complexity of the spell (the more complex the spell, the more power is required for it to ‘solidify’ into permanency).
• Sacrifices can be combined to theoretically supply an infinite amount of power (since power is generated by amount of combined essence), though there are caveats. The intent of the spell means that either each sacrifice must have the same (or similar enough) intent, or only one part of the sacrifice can have any intent at all.

Cons:
• The interpretive nature of primal magic means that while spells can easily achieve complexities well beyond what other magics can, it might not necessarily be exactly what one wants. Communicating intent clearly is vital, which is why those who are highly in tune with ley lines (more generally speaking, nature), such as druids and shamans, tend to be more successful in getting their spells to do exactly what they want.
• Ley lines are not uniformly spread. While theoretically all parts of the universe have access to a ley line in one form or another, some areas have greater or lesser access. This means that primary practitioners of primal magic tend to stay in whatever area has the highest availability of ley line access they can get to. Power and complexity both are directly tied to the ley line in a particular area far more than they’re tied to the caster.

Divine Magic:

Divine magic (also called faith magic or miracle working) is another old and relatively easy type of magic, though it is more selective in practitioners than Primal magic. Casting a spell involves aligning or harmonizing your soul with that of a deity (see Divinity below), and then requesting (often via a ritualized prayer or specific supplication, but not necessarily, depends on individual deity) a particular action. Beyond that, little is definitively known about the actual details or mechanics of divine spellcasting, and popular theory states that it is different for each deity. While some deities answer divine prayers specifically and individually, others take a more hands-off approach and grant whatever is requested. What is known is that the better one’s soul is aligned or harmonized to the deity, the more divine empowerment one can channel. Much like with Primal magic, complexity of a spell is not a particular concern, as that aspect is handled by the deity/the deity’s mantle. However, as harmonizing with a deity’s mantle relies heavily on one’s emotional state, a divine spells greatest weakness is mind-effecting magic, as even temporary disruption of that harmony can cause the spell to fail or collapse. This, incidentally, is also why so many dislike the gods, particularly the goods ones, as they feel that when they call out in fear or despair, they should be answered regardless. Sadly, the alignment is a required component, and fear is not usually aligned with any deity that is likely to offer aid. Also, amusingly enough, it is entirely possible to cast divine spells from a deity that the caster knows literally nothing about, in the case of those who just happen to align with a particular deity naturally. Indeed, this is one of the ways that new deities are discovered.

Divinity – a divinity is any being that has a divine ‘mantle’. While the exact nature of the divine mantle is much debated, there are a few things that are known to be true. A divine mantle allows other beings to receive power from the mantle by aligning themselves with it (i.e. grants divine magic) and gives the bearer of the mantle a little understood connection with a specific thing or things (commonly referred to as domains or portfolios), which grants them considerable innate control over said thing or things, interestingly very similar to loci spirits (and in fact there are known instances of loci spirits being divine). It is also unknown what requirements for type of being attaining divinity there are, as there are records of deific animals, constructs, and even plants. A divine mantle also appears to be entirely based around an abstract concept of ‘power’, generally thought to be connected to the soul. As such, some beings are born or created powerful enough to start as deities, while others gain power over time until a tipping point is reached. Interestingly enough, it only needs to be a one-time thing, as many mortals who gained divinity did so via temporary measures (such as Nethys briefly gaining omniscience, then afterwards returning to his normal level of power). Once you gain the mantle, it can only be removed by being transferred to something else, regardless of how weak or powerful one might become afterwards (though this transferal does not need to be voluntary, as one of the more common ways of gaining divinity is stealing or taking it from something that already possesses a divine mantle). Also, while more worshippers can increase a deity’s power, lack of worshippers cannot strip a deity of its divine mantle. According to various writings penned by ascended deities (that is, deities that were once mortal) using the mantles power can be risky, as tapping into that power allows the beliefs of one’s worshippers to affect one’s own power and personality, both temporarily (just while one is tapped into the mantle) and even permanently if one consistently and frequently relies on the mantles power. It is theorized that there are actually many more deities than are generally known, most of which remain unknown in an effort to actively avoid altering their divine mantle and the potential personality shift that can come with such.

There are a great many factors and rules about divinity that mortals (and likely even the gods themselves) do not understand.

Pros:
• Another very easy magic to use, though less common than primal magic due to requiring a very specific type of person. Allows for greatly complex spells.
• Again, like Primal magic spells can be largely indefinite, limited only by the continued existence of the deity and the continued alignment of the caster with said deity.
• Within a deity’s specific portfolio they are virtually unmatched for expertise and influence, contestable only by other deities with the same or similar domains.
• Unlike other types of magic, there is no known method of blocking the divine connection other than by changing the alignment of the caster and/or the deity, rendering divine casters impervious to many situations that would cripple other magic users.

Cons:
• While not nearly as bad as primal magic, one is still at the whim of the deity, and situations might arise wherein they decide to grant some different spell, not grant a spell at all, or (admittedly rare in the extreme) die/lose part of their mantle and be unable to grant the spell.
• Being so heavily dependent on emotional state, it is easy to have spells interrupted or even lose the ability to cast spells at all. Mind affecting magic, personality change, and trauma/illness can all conspire to misalign ones soul from that of the granted divinity.

Psychic Magic:

Psychic magic is a relatively recent type of magic, and also the rarest. Often associated with monastic traditions, this is merely a correlation, as they both focus on and emphasize the same skills and behaviors. Psychic magic involves manipulating your spirit to produce excess spiritual energy (chakra, ki, chi, qi, serpentfire, etc, see spiritual energy below), and using that energy to cast spells. Psychic magic is difficult, as it requires a great deal of both mental and physical training and discipline, as one has to both provide the energy for the spell and direct it, unlike all other types of magic (primal requires an energy comingling, but not at a 1:1 ratio and does not require direction, divine requires neither energy nor direction, and arcane requires only direction and the ability to channel the energy, not the actual energy itself). Since both positive and negative energy are directly related to one’s physical health, increasing one’s ability to generate such energy involves rigorous physical conditioning, which in turn means one needs to increase their focus to deal with this increased energy. In the overwhelming majority of cases, psychic magic is largely underwhelming (though see pros below), requiring years or even decades of rigorous training to achieve even the most meager of spells, though as a lifestyle it is highly beneficial due to its requirement of good health and discipline. There are however extremely rare cases of people being able to surpass the normal limitation of an organic body (via genetic fluke, deific blessing, or magical aid) and generate almost inconceivable amounts of energy, allowing for spells of staggering scope. In the vast majority of these cases, the individual in question also ascends to godhood, which is what generates the largest draw for the style.

Spiritual energy – the energy of life. Described as a field of positive and negative energy that is given off by the soul, it is the animating force of the body. Technically, positive and negative energy are the same thing, just with different ‘charges’ (and in fact, more pedantic scholars have argued that the terms should be swapped to more accurately portray the flow of energy, but this is largely irrelevant to the actual mechanics themselves). A healthy body will be neutrally charged (i.e. having roughly equal amounts of negative and positive energy), with imbalances causing a host of physical problems. Too much positive energy often results in physical health problems, such as auto-immune disorders and cancer, while too much negative energy will result in mental health problems, such as schizophrenia or manic depressive/bipolar disorder.
Positive energy collects in nodes called chakras, and the negative energy orbits around this in various configurations dependent on the number and size of the chakras. The number of chakras is technically variable, but is largely defined by species, with lower order species, such as insects, only having one chakra, and higher order species such as humans having on average seven (records show that humans have between five and eight chakras). There is not true agreement on what the different numbers of chakras mean, though it is generally agreed that the more chakras, the more potential one has. It also seems to be related to level of consciousness or sentience, though there are too many inconsistencies to accept this as a hard rule.
It is important to note that a living body ONLY utilizes negative energy for animation (either physical action or psychic spells). The exact reason why is still unknown, but regardless, positive energy stays in the chakras at all times. No energy outside of a chakra will ever be positive. When one expends too much negative energy (such as by exercise or casting spells), the chakras will automatically convert positive energy into negative energy to maintain equilibrium. The effect of this of course is that life is only generated via positive energy, so the more one’s chakras have to convert positive to negative energy, the less ‘life’ or vitality one will have. This suppresses a wide variety of bodily functions, such as the immune system and metabolic rate, but also things like mood and libido. It is almost universal that the more positive energy one has, the more energetic and lively one will be.

Pros:
• The single largest use of psychic magic is mental manipulation, as this requires only a miniscule amount of energy, and is largely instinctive for most personality types (though one can of course always learn to improve). This is the one area where psychic magic excels beyond other types, and is the only area that is regularly practiced by those not fully devoted to psychic magic as a whole.
• If one can manage to surpass the typical limitations of an organic body, the power available is theoretically limitless, and there are records of people shifting geological formations or even completely destroying planets with psychic magic. Frequently a prelude to godhood.
• Even for casual practitioners, the health benefits, both mentally and physically, of this style of magic are noticeable, with lifelong practitioners living longer, having little to no diseases or illness, and remaining mobile and cognizant well into old age.

Cons:
• Requires extensive training and conditioning to achieve the same things that other styles can do as a matter of course.
• Easy to lose the ability to cast psychic spells, as disease, illness, poison, chronic injuries, or just lack of ability to train all can rapidly reduce the body’s ability to generate energy.
• There is a hard limit on how powerful one can become without outside aid, a limit that only one in millions or even billions can surpass.

Arcane Magic:

Arcane magic is the most recent, and the most commonly used type of magic. Casting spells is essentially nothing more than transforming energy in one type, form, or place, to another type, form, or place (indeed, spells are often referred to as transformations by the more technically minded scholars). The caster is the channel through which the energy travels and is transformed. For example, one could transfer kinetic energy from a patch of desert sand with a large radius to a point coinciding with an enemy’s head to cause it to burst into flame (and incidentally create a very cool patch of sand in the desert). The limitations on this type of magic are almost entirely intellectual. Being able to hold the necessary transformations in your head accurately requires a great deal of skill, knowledge, and practice, and as such arcane magic is often limited to those who have access to educational facilities or experts. In addition, there is a genetic component as well, as everyone is born with a certain magical ‘resistance’, which inhibits the flow of energy through one’s mind, regardless of how accurate or thoroughly one holds the spells in their head. There doesn’t seem to be any way of reducing this resistance naturally, though there are case studies indicating that it changes over time. However, there are tools and other augmentations that can help mitigate a naturally high resistance.

Resistance – all things have a certain spell resistance that inhibits the transformation of energy of a spell. This means that practically speaking, all spells will require more energy to cast than they will produce, with the waste usually being in the form of negative energy (which can lead to toxic build-up and mental health issues eventually) and whatever the original energy type was. The calculations to determine spell efficiency are well known (and were in fact one of the first subjects of study for early arcane practitioners), but the reason for the resistance itself is not well understood. Theoretically, zero resistance objects or entities can exist, though no definitive examples have been proven (though several near zero substances have been discovered).

Pros:
• Provides a great deal of control to the caster, provided the caster accurately calculates all involved parameters.
• Consistency across all platforms. A particular spell will be the same for every single person that casts it, allowing for easy dissemination of information and education.
• Many tools to both increase ability and speed of casting exist
• Both modular and expandable. Easy to build upon what others have done if necessary

Cons:
• Even for those naturally gifted, it is often the least intuitive of the magic styles, and requires a high degree of education and intelligence for all but the most minimally complex spells.
• Nearly reliant on external tools if one either wants to perform the spell quickly or has a naturally high resistance

Secondary Styles:

Arcane/Primal: often called witches, use magic similarly to arcane practitioners, but rather than pulling from physical energy, they convert spirit energy from a ley line or genius loci into magical effects. This gives them much more versatility than a typical arcane mage, but at the cost of power/efficiency. Often use blood diagrams to improve efficiency. Interestingly, these are the mages that are most likely to practice necromancy.

Primal/Divine: easily the rarest combination of magical styles, as it requires physical interaction with a deity. Much like primal magic, it involves commingling essence with a divinity, granting the user the power of that divinity. Almost all known records of this type of magic ended with the user either dead or deified (or both).

Divine/Occult: a common combination of styles, the user utilizes psychic magic largely to influence their own mind and soul to further help them synchronize with their deity, and thus improve their magic. This is practically ubiquitous in the higher echelons of divine casters.

Occult/Arcane: combining occult and arcane traditions is best utilized by mages who need to cast spells quickly and/or with little to no preparation. Unlike with Arcane/Primal mages, the mage doesn’t use their spirit energy to power the spell, but rather to feel out the forces to be used in the spell, allowing them to cast via intuitively feeling the energy, rather than calculations. Users tend to be highly perceptive and have incredible situational awareness, being able to accurately sense things beyond the means of their physical senses. There is also an inverse correlation between psychic ability and resistance (the more psychically adept one is, the lower their arcane resistance) that is being intently studied.

Tertiary Styles:

Arcane/Divine: a rare combination of styles that is only seen with deities that have arcane magic as one of their domains (such as Nethys). Similar to, but much more powerful than Arcane/Primal, just substituting Ley Lines for a deity.

Occult/Primal: instead of commingling ones essence with a ley line, practitioners of this art commingle their spirit. This is almost invariably suicide, as ones spirit can almost never compare in potency to even the meagerest branch of the Lifestream, and will be swept away (ironically often creating a genius loci). Even utilizing all possible safety precautions, it still essentially comes down to being able to contain that much energy, which is impossible for almost every mortal. Only those rare occult masters who have surpassed typical mortal limitations can even attempt this, and even then caution is advised.

Spirit Magic:

Not technically an actual school of magic, “spirit magic” is little more than transferring a genius loci from a ley line to an individual’s personal spiritual energy (either their own or another’s), or a prepared vessel (typically constructs, though necromancy is also distressingly common). Genius loci come in an infinite array of forms (see Genius Loci below), but there are certain specific forms that are commonly sought after for binding. The first is a form that has a specific or unique ability that would be difficult to replicate otherwise (such as weather control or mental manipulation). The second is a form that is highly knowledgeable or knows certain secrets. Often young or desperate arcane practitioners will seek out a knowledgeable genius loci to provide tutoring, though of course binding a spirit and actually getting it to cooperate are very different struggles, and most possessions are the result of someone attempting to bind a spirit without securing its cooperation first. Most spirits do not have a particular desire to possess others, as it is a lateral move for most, and a significant downgrade for the more powerful spirits (as they’re limited to the spiritual energy of their host, rather than the entirety of a leyline). However, it’s a common enough practice that the binding spells are commonly known and are actually among some of the first spells most practitioners will learn and practice with.

Pros:
• Can allow even the weakest of spellcasters to achieve a moderate or high level of ability with magic
• Most gifted spellcasters will leave some sort of spirit behind, meaning that their knowledge and skill can be preserved and utilized
Cons:
• If spirit is not cooperative, can leave you worse than before, or even dead/completely possessed. Maintaining a good relationship with ones spirit is vital
• Limited by actually finding a spirit that has the desired properties. As with people, not all spirits are useful, and unbinding a spirit from one’s self is usually more difficult than the binding.

Genius Loci – partially or fully sentient nodes or manifestations of the Lifestream, often broadly referred to as spirits. They can arise naturally (and often do) from a powerful but poorly worded spell, a spell that managed to last beyond its intent and become permanent, or most commonly via the death of a sentient being. It is important to note that a genius loci is NOT a ghost or soul in any way. It is merely a spiritual clone of the being at its moment of death. The spirit may or may not believe this, but that has no bearing on reality. It is interesting to note that the people most likely to create a genius loci with their death are experienced arcane practitioners, an oddity considering that of all the magic types they work the least with spiritual energy.
Additionally, genius loci can be artificially created via certain magical rituals, though this is often difficult and expensive. Powerful mages have a tendency to use these manufactured genius loci as either guardians or libraries.

Meta-magic:

Meta-magic is often not even considered a form of magic, but rather a type of “reality bending”. The most prevalent theory suggests that meta-magic is merely a collection of oversights in the creation of the universe that were unintended. Another theory is that they actually were intended (though some of the ‘spells’ discovered make that claim seem dubious at best), but were only meant to be used by the creators, and just happened to accidentally be discovered by mortals. Both these theories are supported by the Aeon’s interest in all meta-magic/reality bending activity.
Often derisively called glitch magic, it is unpredictable, random, and (as of yet) follows no set pattern or coherency. There is very little known about it, but what is known is as follows.
The aspect of meta-magic that defines it is it’s violation of physics (most commonly conservation of energy, but most all physical laws have been recorded broken). All other magics follow the basic laws of physics. The most commonly encountered form of meta-magic is inherent meta-magic, which is described as abilities that a being inherently/naturally has. Dragons are the pre-eminent example of this, as almost the entirety of their being is beyond physics.


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CorvusMask wrote:
It is kinda weird trend I've noticed, lots of people want to think about magic in sciencey way because "If magic was real, there would be science to research it!", but on otherhand, magic is kinda defined by it not being science and it being contradictory or nonsensical at times

Personally I like magic systems where it can be completely defined by scientific methods and the like.

Until you move on to the next guy who has a different understanding of magic, it works different for him.

Your magic is still perfectly consistent with your experiments, no one else's fits your models.


Garretmander wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
It is kinda weird trend I've noticed, lots of people want to think about magic in sciencey way because "If magic was real, there would be science to research it!", but on otherhand, magic is kinda defined by it not being science and it being contradictory or nonsensical at times

Personally I like magic systems where it can be completely defined by scientific methods and the like.

Until you move on to the next guy who has a different understanding of magic, it works different for him.

Your magic is still perfectly consistent with your experiments, no one else's fits your models.

"They called me mad, laughed at me, but it is they who are mad!"

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